TOPIC: Please give feedback on the new event strucure...

If a fighter had a dagger, would the blacksmith upgrade it to something with more damage like a great sword?
David

Players will be able to trade with the blacksmith for different weapons but 'upgrading' from dagger to great sword isn't an even trade. The blacksmith is going to want something else in that trade. In a campaign you donn't only find things your character class can use. View the TD sponsored trading places (Blacksmith/apothocary) like a DM run NPC shopkeeper. They don't always have what you want and will probably want to haggle over prices. You might get better deals trading with other players.

Please forgive me for being negative (I haven’t had my coffee yet). :twisted:

But does TD think that this process for acquiring basic gear will be enjoyable for the majority of TDers?

Upgrading weapons is different all together (e.g. sword and gold for +1 sword) but in most of the games that I know, you are always given basic gear and you upgrade from there. So far, I think there is too much emphasis being placed on getting players set up with basic gear. A better strategy: just give each player one basic weapon (e.g. wizard:dagger, rogue:shortword, fighter:longsword) and then give them the opportunity to upgrade (wizard picks up a sling and staff, fighter a greatsword and shield, etc)

With the current weapon paradigm, as a character, you might be given something you can’t use and are basically forced to go through the motions to get to square one.

Additionally, given all of the things that are going to be in the Inn, I don’t think people will want to spend time in line at the blacksmith trying to exchange a dagger for a sword.

My 3 cents on the subject (Dave, what’s my total now?)

-Douglas

Now time to go get some coffee. :smt030

We are giving each player one free weapon and one free armor token, and I think that most people will just trade with other players if they want to upgrade...or get something they really need (like if they were a Wizard with a Great Sword). I like the way we are doing it because it will encourage players to barter amongst themselves within the party and in general. That should help to get people talking and be more comfortable with each other. That should make the adventure even more fun.

I think the treasure tokens are set up to very much encourage player interaction. And don't forget...players will find the tokens in the dungeon and want to trade it once they leave. It should be pretty cool inside that tavern!

I'm not sure why, but after reading that post I got an image of the West Britain bank, from Ultaim Online, with their throngs of people standing around, using all caps to advertise "SELLING SWORD OF FORCE, 30,000 GOLD"... "SELLING RARE POLKA-DOTTED GOBLIN SKIN, 1 BILLION GOLD" and such...

I hope the lag in the Tavern doesn't get too bad. ;p

We are giving each player one free weapon and one free armor token, and I think that most people will just trade with other players if they want to upgrade

What happens to the poor wizard player when an entire party of brand new adventurers (with no supplemental tokens) pull out longswords and battlaxes? Seems unlikely, but stranger things have happened. Both the wizard and rogue would be out of luck, since neither can use these weapons.

As a potential solution, you could have two weapon boxes to choose from: the standard "all common weapons" box and the "only simple weapons box". Players can choose which box to pull from. The simple weapons box is filled with weapons that any class can use (daggers and quarterstaffs). Wizards can choose to take a chance on pulling a weapon that is either usable and tradeable or they can play it safe and pull from the simple weapons box.

I like the idea of players choosing which box.

*raises hand*

Point of order...

Unless you're there at 2am or something crazy like that, there will be an obscene crowd of people trading and buying tokens etc...

If a player can't find someone to trade with, they aren't trying AT ALL!

We are giving each player one free weapon and one free armor token, and I think that most people will just trade with other players if they want to upgrade

What happens to the poor wizard player when an entire party of brand new adventurers (with no supplemental tokens) pull out longswords and battlaxes? Seems unlikely, but stranger things have happened. Both the wizard and rogue would be out of luck, since neither can use these weapons.

As a potential solution, you could have two weapon boxes to choose from: the standard "all common weapons" box and the "only simple weapons box". Players can choose which box to pull from. The simple weapons box is filled with weapons that any class can use (daggers and quarterstaffs). Wizards can choose to take a chance on pulling a weapon that is either usable and tradeable or they can play it safe and pull from the simple weapons box.

I would think that any weapons that a wizard or rogue can not use could be traded easily enough at the blacksmith for something that they can use if they couldn't trade with other players.
Personally, if there were two boxes with one being anything and one simple, I would ask our wizard to draw from the anything box so that our fighter (me) would have a better chance of getting a cool, big sword.
I agree that the trading could be a good ice breaker for people just meeting in a party and it sounds like enough time is being allocated for being in the tavern.
I was just checking earlier to make sure the blacksmith would be making trades as I thought he/she would.
David

Good discussion here.

But given the emphasis on simplicity, I think this random weapon and armor is an unnecessary and added complexity that could cause problems (e.g. a group draws all daggers and short swords). At SoCal, I did not see anyone trading when I went in. If I WAS REQUIRED to trade to get a weapon that was even USABLE, I don't think I would have been happy. But granted, there is a blacksmith now to trade. I just hope he isn't overwhelmed.

Needless to say, this will be a learning experience and I am sure there will be good lessons learned that come out of it.

-Douglas

I too did not witness anyone trading tokens at SoCal...hmmmm

Be that as it may and be it as it may what luck a party has pulling the free tokens (gee I thought I was the only one that thought of the worst case luck - thanks for the break Douglas )

I personally like the free pulls for weapon and armor (this is sort of like the premise that characters at least have something before going on an adventure - but then again who hasn't DM'd a game where you force the party to strip off armor and leave behind weapons??? - ok maybe that is just my EVIL DM side talking.)

But I digress - I agree having a simple weapons box will be a beneficial option for TDers - but I also agree with David that a party should put the wizard and rogue in the back of the line and see what the BUFF players pull - before they stick their hand in either box.

As much as I would like to trade all day long at INDY, I'm not doing this, likewise I think there are going to be limits on the number of players and available "deals" in my opinion (people are going to trade to a point and stop, or traders are going to be busy at the CON or volunteering, etc) and this could present a limited opportunity for everyone to get what they feel they need for the adventure. That is something I think TD wants to avoid.

These are all good points. We might use the box idea...or at least keep it in reserve if things go poorly. I hope the free tokens will get players interacting...but gamers are a tricky bunch to predict.

Thanks for all your input and your interest in making TD something as cool as possible. Player input has been crucial this year to making TD cooler, and I think it will just keep getting better with our players help.

I am not really sure how this insane idea we have for this tavern will work out. The TD North crew is going to put a huge amount of work into it, so I know it is going to be an awesome place to visit. Whether the players and GenCon gamers decide to make it the defacto cool place to hang out...we won't know that until Friday night. If we are packed on Friday night...then our dream will be realized. If not...we may turn part of the tavern into an "inn" and rent out space for gamers to sleep. (Okay...I am kidding!) Gen Con Indy really needs a "Safehouse" type place, and I hope we can provide it.

There is an old wargamer saying: "No battle plan survives contact with the enemy." So I am ready to be adaptive and alter things as we go. I am sure that Jenn and Lance will have a good feel of how to fine tune this crazy experiment called the TD Tavern. It should be interesting to see how players deal with these two free treasure tokens. It is hoped the commerce will be quick and fun.