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TOPIC: AC Bonus for monster missile attacks ⚰

AC Bonus for monster missile attacks ⚰ 2 months 4 weeks ago #13

jedibcg wrote:

Marc D wrote: First, thanks for the work in simplifying things. Less confusion is always better.

That said, I'm a bit confused by the change as I thought "Melee AC" and "Ranged AC" on the party card referred to the player's attack mode, not the monster's attack method.

By way of example:
Figma the Fighter uses a +1 Longsword and Defender shield to attack in melee. As a precaution, Figma also carries a +1 Longbow and an Archer's Buckler just in case they need to hit something at distance.

The Defender shield provides +3 AC when Figma uses the longsword, but the buckler only proivdes +1 AC when Figma uses the longbow. I thought that was what "Melee AC" and "Ranged AC" referred to in character stats. And "Missile AC" was a "bonus" added to either of those stats when a monster performed a ranged attack.

So, I guess the question is: how does this all now work when someone switches from a Melee weapon to a Ranged weapon and has a different offhand item that provides a different AC bonus?



I came to say much of this. It is a nerf of those tokens, but probably a needed one for simplicity sake not power.

It doesn't make sense to me, but I am fine with the change.


Nerf? I was thinking of this as an upgrade. The situational bonus hardly ever comes up, and is probably forgotten when it does. But an always active ranged AC bonus can be really good.
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AC Bonus for monster missile attacks ⚰ 2 months 4 weeks ago #14

I should clarify what I said earlier - for a given room it either causes tokens to do nothing or doesn't change how the tokens work as that room has missile monster.

For other rooms, a permanent increase to AC is vaguely interesting, Lenses of Alert seems the only case where I'd actually bother running the token for the +4 AC all of the time (as I'm only ever going to stay in ranged player mode in ranged builds).

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AC Bonus for monster missile attacks ⚰ 2 months 4 weeks ago #15

Good change to simplify the rules & party cards!
Classes Played: Barbarian (46 times), Monk (45), Ranger (27), Rogue (21), Cleric (19), Fighter (12), Dwarf Fighter (9), Druid (7), Paladin (7), Bard (6), Elf Wizard (2), Wizard (2)

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AC Bonus for monster missile attacks ⚰ 2 months 4 weeks ago #16

kurtreznor wrote: Nerf? I was thinking of this as an upgrade. The situational bonus hardly ever comes up, and is probably forgotten when it does. But an always active ranged AC bonus can be really good.


So if you were wearing the Armor of the Mist previously and were attacking in by a range attack you had an AC of 9 no matter if you were range or melee. So it covered you either way. Now you have to be in range for the extra AC to cover you. Granted if you are in range it also covers you when you are attacked in melee, but I from what I have seen most players are in melee more often than they are in range. Again most players not all this would translate to a nerf because they are losing AC more often than they are gaining it. Again I don't think this is a bad thing but I do think it is a thing. I also don't expect the number of players using these tokens to be very high. I also don't expect the number of players using them now to increase (or decrease), but if someone wants a Shield of Deflection now let me know....lol.
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AC Bonus for monster missile attacks ⚰ 2 months 4 weeks ago #17

Fred K wrote: I recommend one additional change of wizard (and other class) slides from spells and scrolls to just use the ranged AC of the opponent. That would remove another level of complexity and also solve for something that didn't scale as the game expanded. Originally, an AC 15 wasn't automatic - now, even at builds with just 1 or 2 URs, it is an automatic. This slightly reduces spell slider power - maybe off-set it with a bonus to hit but not so much that it is "don't slide a 1" to hit unless the player really builds up ranged to hit. For normal 10 pack builds it would have only a minor impact. This would require a little balancing to get what that bonus is nailed down but would be worth it to remove another element of unnecessary complexity.


This suggestion makes me cry. Before VTD, I was always just playing with tokens from my 10-packs and my 3 treasure pulls each run, and I hated hated the sliding spells, because I would always miss. Making it substantially harder to hit with the sliding spells will effectively remove sliding spells from a good number of people. This is especially true in physical TD, where we hardly ever slide, so we have even less practice at it than others.

I'm OK with there being a way for some spells to miss, but having it be an almost certainty for some players seems too much. If we really want to introduce something like that, maybe build on the skills that wizards already have? Something like "pass three out of four skill checks to hit", or something like that?

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AC Bonus for monster missile attacks ⚰ 2 months 4 weeks ago #18

jedibcg wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: Nerf? I was thinking of this as an upgrade. The situational bonus hardly ever comes up, and is probably forgotten when it does. But an always active ranged AC bonus can be really good.


So if you were wearing the Armor of the Mist previously and were attacking in by a range attack you had an AC of 9 no matter if you were range or melee. So it covered you either way. Now you have to be in range for the extra AC to cover you. Granted if you are in range it also covers you when you are attacked in melee, but I from what I have seen most players are in melee more often than they are in range. Again most players not all this would translate to a nerf because they are losing AC more often than they are gaining it. Again I don't think this is a bad thing but I do think it is a thing. I also don't expect the number of players using these tokens to be very high. I also don't expect the number of players using them now to increase (or decrease), but if someone wants a Shield of Deflection now let me know....lol.


I thought it was a bonus when you were attacked from range, not when you were in ranged. this will make it easier to understand at least!
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AC Bonus for monster missile attacks ⚰ 2 months 4 weeks ago #19

macxdmg wrote:
I thought it was a bonus when you were attacked from range, not when you were in ranged. this will make it easier to understand at least!


That is what it was it is changing. I agree it is simpler this way, but that doesn't mean something isn't lost. I also am not saying that is a bad thing.
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