TOPIC: Feedback please! New Safehold details posted

Grizwald wrote:

Mythic Bead of Defiance: In addition, during Mythic DR runs, this token will allow characters a saving throw against any Mythic monster weird effects.

Jeff,
Can the "weird effect" be renamed to something like "Overwhelming Effect" or "Overpowering Effect"? That way there is a specific key word tied to the effect. The reason being is if a monster does anything that could be considered "weird", someone will argue that they get a save to avoid it.

alesiev - Alex wrote: Genuine curiosity: The text for Charm of Fate states that a mythic troll could do a sweep that does 100 HP of damage. I get that Mythic will be for hardcore (well, Mythic) players, but is that realistic damage for the more glass-cannon type classes? Seeing such a high number just makes me think "well, one attack and that player would be out".

Edit: finished reading, the token makes it so AC comes into play to mitigate the auto hit mythic attack...so that would be a required token essentially for mythic play. Is the idea to be that a mythic player has ALL of these tokens for mythic to be a viable difficulty?

The Charm of Fate is hard to judge without seeing how Mythic Monster stats are going to be. If the Mythic Troll has +45 to hit with it's 100 damage attack, is getting to use your AC going to make a difference? Or if you get a save vs. the effect and the difficulty is so high you only pass on a 20.

I also don't like "weird effect". Maybe Mythic Effect?

Mike Steele wrote: Jeff, looks pretty good. I still think 25K GP for the Mythic tokens is too low, it should be more than the Legendary tokens. 50K would be better.

I respectfully disagree Mike. I think 25 K GP is fine. For Mythic runs to happen there need to be enough adventurers making the Mythic Tokens as well as all of the Safehold Levels to get to Level 1.

Ahh the typical raise the GP cost for optics of not being more GP than legendaries.

If we are going to suggest raising GP on already insanely expensive tokens can we at least suggest lowering the other trade goods by the same percentage? This maintains cost without raising total cost and still makes the optics people happy that mythics cost more GP than legendaries…

There's an interesting (in my opinion, at any rate) discussion in the Discord right now on the Mythic stuff. The chat is largely focused on the following:

- How does Mythic impact the play experience?
- How will tickets be handled?

Ultimately, we all know that Mythic is a MASSIVE investment. And that's fine! It's akin to playing high-level D&D in an organized play campaign... it's content/a system designed for 2-4% of the playerbase. But will the mythic TD games be substantially different from the normal runs, or will mythic simply be a set of boosted numbers?

As for tickets, well, I have to admit that I'm incredibly concerned that this is going be like Grind tickets where one person wants to play mythic multiple times so they purchase every run and the rest of us are left with an extremely expensive token that we can't take full advantage of. If we knew that mythic tickets were limited to 1/person per game I'd feel marginally better about it, but even that's an inelegant solution.

Basically: what's the play value, and play availability, of mythic TD?

The resource costs of the tokens aren't terrible as-is, though I'd caution against any additional trade good creep. Things like EM and OE are extremely rare now, and others like MH are becoming harder to source since we've eliminated the 10-packs from additional treasure.

I think Jeff might be biting off more than he can chew with a specific Mythic difficulty level where only people with Mythics can play on a Mythic run. Would be easier if the Mythic Tokens were normal higher powered Tokens and the Mythic difficulty level another step above Epic. If people want to try Mythic difficulty without Mythics let TD take their money with maybe an upfront disclaimer they will probably die quickly. Will be interesting to see how this all shakes out.

Rob F wrote: I think Jeff might be biting off more than he can chew with a specific Mythic difficulty level where only people with Mythics can play on a Mythic run. Would be easier if the Mythic Tokens were normal higher powered Tokens and the Mythic difficulty level another step above Epic. If people want to try Mythic difficulty without Mythics let TD take their money with maybe an upfront disclaimer they will probably die quickly. Will be interesting to see how this all shakes out.

Agreed. Its like now how some players invite newbies along for an Epic run. I feel like anyone should be able to play on Mythic difficulty, but you have to be insanely equipped. That way if you have a bunch of Mythic equipped people some Epic equipped people could still join.

I still have issues with mythic tokens primary use is to avoid a mythic effect. Essentially, it is McGuffin difficulty that overcoming it means using 3 anti-McGuffin tokens. So far, mythic sounds identical to everything else plus a McGuffin v anti-McGuffin mechanic. As players, we can artificially create this without spending $10K to get there just by how we decide to run or build our characters within any organized group.

I strongly recommend that Mythic be designed to be a wholly different framework than the regular game.

Please don't make Mythic effects that require specific mythic tokens to overcome. Instead, think of it like Safehold 1 means the gods have recognized you as worthy of a higher level of quest. Maybe this becomes something like a living campaign. While on the mythic quests, you advance heroic levels with new/different character cards. Because these quests are a secret of the gods, the mythic heroic levels are only usable on mythic quests (otherwise, back to regular character cards.)

In those quests, you would be facing much more powerful creatures - many times the challenge you previously faced. Higher DC's, much more damage, armor making a difference to damage, etc.. Perhaps completing X number of quests allows you to forge something new (possibly minor artifacts) and earn titles, etc.. The mythic tokens wouldn't be requirements for those adventures, just a SH1 as the requirement. You'd want the mythic tokens if the challenge level of the mythic quests was so extreme that you normally don't survive.

Operationally, this means having another set of monster stats that the DMs would run and likely changes to puzzle clues, etc. I'd recommend limiting who could DM mythic since so much of it would need to be different to be worth doing. Ideally, mythic quest runs would be set times and fairly limited (and limiting that players can only try it X number of times.) I'd also love to see something new/different that only appears in mythic runs for these. Maybe an extra NPC or alternate puzzle/monster.

Fred