TOPIC: NO Legendary Transmute Recipes to be Altered EVER

I agree with David that changing things does not feel great.

It’s easy to forget that many players build up to these tokens over years of play, not winning auctions or buying large token orders. Assuming it isn’t changing recipes to be less expensive, it should only be done after a long lead time.

First, if you want to revisit recipes because the market is out of wack (and I dont know that changing the recipes at all is the right thing to do), please look at the OE and EB shortage that you've created. Thats what folks are upset about, not COA prices.

Second, if you want to make a change to these recipes, I feel like there are many better ways to do that then a nebulous post saying something might change in a month. Thats not real notice. Real notice is clearly specifying the changes far in advance so people can plan.

Bryan/OddSquirrel wrote: Yeah. What I mean is that this stuff should be based on the game, not on the market. TD shouldn't really ever acknowledge the secondary market and definitely shouldn't let it influence how they make the game.

Recipes should be constructed in a way that makes sense both diagetically and mechanically. A cloak should use silks and hides and fleece, perhaps; a sword should use steel and so on and so on. That's the diagetic. Then, the numbers and additions should be based on desired difficulty and time to collect the pieces to make it.

And then, you don't change that recipe. You might add more recipes - options are always great - but changing a recipe, and especially for this reason, feels manipulative, both of players, and of the secondary market.

I mostly agree, except about not changing recipes. Recipes were almost entirely made to expire. So, number of recipes that are relevant is few. TGs or gold or PYPs have not remotely the same difficulty of acquisition today as it did pre-Covid or even between two years such as 2013 and 2018. It's not just VTD expanding number of tickets, it's that beyond number of conventions increasing TEs kept expanding in both number and player availability.

The US finally stopped making pennies. Read an article recently showing pictures from 1973 and the cost of food items at McDonald's. I could probably scrounge 35 pennies from the car to get a milkshake if the "recipe" never changed. Inflation has been massive in this game.

Is the casual player priced out from more and more stuff every year as the casual player's acquisition volume doesn't correlate to that of core players? Sure. Where other players fall somewhere in between the casual player and the swimming in tokens tycoon. There's something deeply divisive (obviously) about the impact of this inflation. But, I gather the point of this change is to try to maintain the challenge in making a few targeted tokens, a challenge which some people prefer and some people don't but that at least is consistent with how increased supply of components for evergreen recipes is an economic reality.

In a way it protects players that have already made or bought it. The transmutation cost and the secondary price for a CoA before the new recipe came out ranged I think around $1000-$1500, I'm not sure it ever dropped much below $1000. If True Dungeon came out with a new recipe that only cost $500 to make, it resulted in a loss of value to all those who bought/made it before (and that was a LOT of players, and often 10 or more COA's per person). I think that's why the recipe was aimed approximately in that value range. As URs and some Trade Item Tokens dropped in value, it threw that valuation off, which is why TD wants to make a course correction. That makes sense to me.

A similar case could probably be made for whichever other Legendary recipes might get changed.

I too have been slowly saving up for 4 legends over the last decade+.
I'm looking at you Avernon's Deathcleaver, Aron's Sunhide robe, Widseths Legendary Lute, and CoA.

It feels bad to be saving this long slowly playing only for the goal post to move. Not to mention investing in pricey ultra rares that are essentially useless the year they came out because I need them for a recipe.. looking at you earcuff of the phalanx.

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Following on here in agreement:

If they do change, it should be once and forever. It should not be in regards to the market, but in relation to a new understanding in the game design.

To wit: based on what tokens will always be available *in pulls* for people to draw. If there's an UR that is out of rotation, that removes new players from making it.

TD should have a good grasp now on token amounts and types and know what the annual expectation of trade goods to be -- and keep them at that ratio.

And, I'll double-click on what was explicitly said earlier: Changes either hurt players who've already made it or players who were going to make it. It can't be neither, so it shouldn't be touched (again).

True hero of time (THOT) wrote: I too have been slowly saving up for 4 legends over the last decade+.
I'm looking at you Avernon's Deathcleaver, Aron's Sunhide robe, Widseths Legendary Lute, and CoA.

It feels bad to be saving this long slowly playing only for the goal post to move. Not to mention investing in pricey ultra rares that are essentially useless the year they came out because I need them for a recipe.. looking at you earcuff of the phalanx.

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I'll reverse transmute my Widseth's at the current recipe at any time you want. Just let me know!

Mike Steele wrote: Jeff, great idea! That CoA recipe was created when PYPs were running around $110 I think so it was based on that price, and now they're about half that amount.

The price of tokens in the store has not changed at all. If you are concerned about the share of PYPs in second-hand auctions going down, for whatever reason I can't fathom, remember that there is a temporary increase in demand to get patron and AG components in time for Ring Con. That particular demand will decrease again, and funded auctions will shift prices around again. It's not worth changing years old recipes based on this event.

For TD, all I ask is that plenty of warning is given before increasing recipe costs that weren't previously subject to change. Many members of the community don't catch TD news quickly, and if they are surprised because the recipe they were counting on was adjusted upwards, well that's a really nasty surprise.

if i had the materials... I would just make it.

I don't think this is a good idea. People have been saving up based on the existing recipes. IMO any published recipe that doesn't have a time constraint for transmuting (Legendary, Safehold, etc) should never change. No reason since there's no transmute time constraint. And the secondary market should not be a factor for changing them. You will open up a huge can of worms by doing this because every year people will push for a revised recipe.

Right now people are whining about OE and Bismuth. I remember when Fleece was $75+, Aragonite was $30, and a 5K GP Bar was a cool $100. But NO ONE ever complained when the cost to acquire these all came down. No one ever whines when a TG's cost on the secondary market goes down. TG's can't all be worth $2. If people are short I have kind of a crazy idea for them...buy more Tokens from TD!

Please don't change any existing recipes. Rather, adjust future recipes as needed along with adjusting the mix (in terms of the TG's they transmute into) of future years of C/UC/R Tokens.

BasicBraining wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Jeff, great idea! That CoA recipe was created when PYPs were running around $110 I think so it was based on that price, and now they're about half that amount.

The price of tokens in the store has not changed at all. If you are concerned about the share of PYPs in second-hand auctions going down, for whatever reason I can't fathom, remember that there is a temporary increase in demand to get patron and AG components in time for Ring Con. That particular demand will decrease again, and funded auctions will shift prices around again. It's not worth changing years old recipes based on this event.

For TD, all I ask is that plenty of warning is given before increasing recipe costs that weren't previously subject to change. Many members of the community don't catch TD news quickly, and if they are surprised because the recipe they were counting on was adjusted upwards, well that's a really nasty surprise.

I should have clarified that I was talking about the price of PYPs in $8K auctions and forum sales. Quite a few of the CoA that are transmuted use URs obtained in that manner. It is true of course that you still get one PYP for every $250 spent in the token store.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "If you are concerned about the share of PYPs in second-hand auctions going down", but I'm pretty sure that I'm not concerned about it.

I'm always open to iteration and evolution of the game, but personally this year was finally the year my wife and I had enough fun money to invest in transmuting two charms of avarice, and an Ava's for my Pally build... and we splurged on rings for ring con....

I guess what Im saying is please don't break my heart Jeff, lol. Hopefully there's a fair way to make these changes.