TOPIC: NO Legendary Transmute Recipes to be Altered EVER

I agree with a lot of the concerns listed. IMO if it were to change this is horrible timing. A lot of people are crunched on TGs right now due to all the transmute available this year for Ring Con etc. Makes it hard to reallocate to make a COA on short notice.

IMO if it is changing there should be transparency. As in list the new recipe and a last date the current recipe is available, but give more than a few weeks notice.

I would recommend giving a good amount of advanced warning for people working on those transmutes. It would be pretty reasonable to say previously grandfathered recipes will be reviewed and may be altered in 2027. Then plan to give 3-4 months advanced warning to people. We definitely don't want to frustrate people who have slowly been working on CoA's or Surtr's Belt over a couple years to find their effective costs went up dramatically in a time where a good number of people are concerned about their costs skyrocketing. Without a good amount of advanced warning, they make take it badly and leave the game - deciding to cut their losses.

It could be a good time to set a long-term policy on it of something like:
Legendary (or any other current evergreen) recipes are good for X years (5?) then may be adjusted. Any adjustments will be posted x months before the change-over (3? 6?)

My 2 cents on it.

What problem are you trying to solve here? This feels like changing stuff "just because".

Some visibility into the type of change and magnitude would probably help people at least understand what and why

Fred K wrote: I would recommend giving a good amount of advanced warning for people working on those transmutes. It would be pretty reasonable to say previously grandfathered recipes will be reviewed and may be altered in 2027. Then plan to give 3-4 months advanced warning to people. We definitely don't want to frustrate people who have slowly been working on CoA's or Surtr's Belt over a couple years to find their effective costs went up dramatically in a time where a good number of people are concerned about their costs skyrocketing. Without a good amount of advanced warning, they make take it badly and leave the game - deciding to cut their losses.

It could be a good time to set a long-term policy on it of something like:
Legendary (or any other current evergreen) recipes are good for X years (5?) then may be adjusted. Any adjustments will be posted x months before the change-over (3? 6?)

My 2 cents on it.

Good ideas Fred.

Rob F wrote:

Fred K wrote: I would recommend giving a good amount of advanced warning for people working on those transmutes. It would be pretty reasonable to say previously grandfathered recipes will be reviewed and may be altered in 2027. Then plan to give 3-4 months advanced warning to people. We definitely don't want to frustrate people who have slowly been working on CoA's or Surtr's Belt over a couple years to find their effective costs went up dramatically in a time where a good number of people are concerned about their costs skyrocketing. Without a good amount of advanced warning, they make take it badly and leave the game - deciding to cut their losses.

It could be a good time to set a long-term policy on it of something like:
Legendary (or any other current evergreen) recipes are good for X years (5?) then may be adjusted. Any adjustments will be posted x months before the change-over (3? 6?)

My 2 cents on it.

Good ideas Fred.

I would find this as a possibly okay compromise, but it sill wouldn't be great.

I did some digging and could not find any mention of the CoA Recipe possibly changing and after talking to a few folks I think my memory made that up. Given that, I would much rather see TDHQ not altering the recipes that have stood for decades at this point. For all the Old Legendary recipes I honestly just do not see who benefits from this, I can only see it harming the long-term planners who've been building towards their goal for years.

TDHQ has levers to pull for Old Legendary Recipe controls already and that is the Omni Orb and Omni cube, as if they feel too many have been made recently those have likely been too low in their transmute cost. Importantly they have had a long-standing text stating their recipe can change each year.

As for the CoA, I recommend we leave the recipe as it is, and then create a Ever Green Recipe that states it can change every X number of years. I understand they can be made very cheaply right now, but the cost of an 8k has NOT changed since its introduction. Only the perceived value of PYPs and TGs have in community run 8k Auctions. I don't think that is a thing TDHQ should attempt to correct for as that market is fickle and changes to increase costs of recipes I think only serve to alienate a large portion of a player base.

I'm curious as to exactly what problem is this trying to solve? 8k auctions are still going on in one form or another. Some parts go up, others go down but the order gets done has been my general impression.

As someone who does saves and trades over years to make transmutes this is a massive feel bad. The okay if recipe is going to change (and so far yet to see why if any have to) on a whim then i'm feeling and clearly others are as well of well why bother. That's less tokens bought and traded for in some form or another.

If recipes have to be changed then 1 month is not enough time in general, let alone going into the holiday season. Something to be considered and announced towards 2027 maybe at the soonest and that still presumes the why/if it needs done to begin with 1st. This is not news to spring on players, especially considering there's folks who use only the forums, the might as well be official discord because of how many players do gather and use it, who only read TD emails/check td.events, etc. A unified messaging approach and even that that's been proven before it takes time to circulate out to the player base.

So yes please reconsider this Jeff.

I'm OK with the recipes changing at the start of the year, as Jeff stated. I think True Dungeon is being very generous in offering transmutes for excess tokens, I can't think of another hobby I'm in that does that. I know I have many thousands of Magic Cards that I'd love to transmute into more powerful Magic cards, but that will never happen. It seems like TD needs to have some flexibility to adjust recipes at times, as various factors change over time that need to be accounted for.

For those that aren't OK with the change at the start of the year, would you be OK with some sort of compromise such as True Dungeon posts the new recipes at the start of the year, but the new recipes wouldn't replace the previous recipes for three or four months? That would give people that have been working towards recipes more time to complete them.

Another thing to consider, as another poster mentioned, is that it is possible there might be people with existing Legendary tokens that would be willing to trade them for the old recipe ingredients.

Mike Steele wrote: I'm OK with the recipes changing at the start of the year, as Jeff stated. I think True Dungeon is being very generous in offering transmutes for excess tokens, I can't think of another hobby I'm in that does that. I know I have many thousands of Magic Cards that I'd love to transmute into more powerful Magic cards, but that will never happen. It seems like TD needs to have some flexibility to adjust recipes at times, as various factors change over time that need to be accounted for.

For those that aren't OK with the change at the start of the year, would you be OK with some sort of compromise such as True Dungeon posts the new recipes at the start of the year, but the new recipes wouldn't replace the previous recipes for three or four months? That would give people that have been working towards recipes more time to complete them.

Another thing to consider, as another poster mentioned, is that it is possible there might be people with existing Legendary tokens that would be willing to trade them for the old recipe ingredients.

Mike, I guess my first question to TD as others mentioned should have been "Why are you doing this?". It doesn't make any sense to me, maybe there's an issue that Jeff is trying to solve but it's not apparent to me at this time. And none of the player base seems to be complaining about recipes so not sure what is going on.

Mike Steele wrote: I'm OK with the recipes changing at the start of the year, as Jeff stated. I think True Dungeon is being very generous in offering transmutes for excess tokens, I can't think of another hobby I'm in that does that. I know I have many thousands of Magic Cards that I'd love to transmute into more powerful Magic cards, but that will never happen. It seems like TD needs to have some flexibility to adjust recipes at times, as various factors change over time that need to be accounted for.

For those that aren't OK with the change at the start of the year, would you be OK with some sort of compromise such as True Dungeon posts the new recipes at the start of the year, but the new recipes wouldn't replace the previous recipes for three or four months? That would give people that have been working towards recipes more time to complete them.

Another thing to consider, as another poster mentioned, is that it is possible there might be people with existing Legendary tokens that would be willing to trade them for the old recipe ingredients.

As someone with a goal to make most/all of the legendary items (because I like the progression aspect), 3-4 months wouldn't be a lot of time to complete my planned Legendary transmutes (see previous picture). I'm also quartermaster for a loose 7 people, so balancing who gets upgrades and who doesn't right away is another thing I have to navigate.

I guess I am already prioritizing some of the lower TG cost items (if I have the actual items for them), but I wouldn't want to see someone else having to use more TGs for the same item after an arbitrary date (except for tokens that have stated they will rotate yearly like the omni orb/cube recipes)

Creep is making some of the oldest legendaries less enticing (check TaMor's, Welfor's, etc), and the ones that are still useful, such as Pharacus’, Io's, and Relsa's, have a valuable relic in the transmute requirements. Adjusting the cost of the omni orb / cube can account for the differences in other TG over time without disrupting anyone in the process of saving for a large transmute.

The case of CoA is a different story - the Path Fragments and high cost of OE and EB have pushed the price of PYPs down, which in turn has impacted the CoA given it's reliance on PYPs. This will resolve itself in a matter of months as the high prices on Path Fragments, OE, and EB will almost certainly drop right after ring con.

My primary question is, why does TDA really care what the secondary market value is on legendary transmutes enough to change the recipes? Component values can change drastically multiple times over the course of a year... does this mean that the recipes will need to change almost continuously? Why?

While transparency is good it can also spark speculation. That--IMO--seems to be what is happening now.

Announcing a change in Legendary recipes is totally legal. Omni Orbs and Omni Cubes allow for legendary tokens to be made years after the UR's and Relics become hard to obtain.

The CoA currently has three recipes that are widely different. The CoA recipes are also not allowed to use Omni Orbs or Omni Cubes as substitutes. They also require specific tokens that add up to 12 points in the most recent recipe--(AoTF, BOB, BoG, 2027 TE).

Factors that may be influencing the possible change do not need to be disclosed but could include the following:

1) The inclusion of older UR's being in the treasure mix in 2026 (Could be some of the original three that were in the recipe--HoP, RoR, CoGF).
2) Secondary market of recipe ingredients (I personally do not feel this is a big factor for recipe change. It probably was a big factor in coming out with the latest CoA recipe which was met with a lot of positive feedback on the forums).
3) The move to any UR from the current set for 2026 legendary and relic token recipes. (However this does not affect the CoA recipe unless it is a trend for future legendary recipes).
4) Mythic token acquisition is on the horizon also. (Not sure of this impact but Coin of Wealth will remove TE Beads from circulation.)
5) Trying to balance the playing field for new adventurers and older stalwarts is a challenging task. While appeasing invested players, it is well-known that TD needs to attract new clientele to the venue.
6) Inflation may be a factor. The cost of an 8K order has not increased since its inception but the cost of producing tokens has increased.
7) Tariffs could be a factor also. Once again increasing the cost of producing tokens.

The above items could be factors or may not be. In my opinion we can voice concerns but until the changes come out we can only speculate on what is to come.

ini wrote: What problem are you trying to solve here? This feels like changing stuff "just because".

Some visibility into the type of change and magnitude would probably help people at least understand what and why

Good question! I appreciate your curiosity. I should have given more info in the first post.

Charm of Avarice - CoA's have gotten too cheap for players to transmute based on historical secondary-market prices. I used these prices back in 2023 when the newest recipe (#3) was created to allow folks with the Amulet of Treasure Finding (and Beads) to use them to make the CoA. Every CoA created is a big liability for TD as some players use them to collect 100's or even 1,000's of treasure pulls in a year. And I hope that TD sticks around for a long time. Therefore, we want to make sure we keep CoA relatively rare. The alternative is just to remove the CoA entirely from the Transmute Program once the final Bead is out next year.

Other Legendaries - The tone of my post was to let folks know we are changing the recipe for the CoA -- and MAYBE other Legendaries. I thought it would be worth taking a look at old Legendaries that were hardly NEVER (or completely never) made due to their low desireability and recipes. TaMor's +4 Mithral Bracers come to mind in this case, and maybe lowering it might be good so newer folks have a way to equip a Legendary. I can run a report to see what Legendaries were rarely made -- if at all, and see what we can do to make them more desireable by reducing the recipe for a 15 year old Legendary. Or, maybe we just leave them as is?