TOPIC: What would be an even trade for these two items?

Last year I wanted to trade 1000 gp and five potions of death's door for Ektar's Tinkering tool. I was also going to trade a crap load of star sapphires (Six) and abunch of blood opals and various gems (for last years combs) for Bracers of defense +2. Would those have been even trades or am I missing something? If those are not, what would be an even trade for either? Or as close as you can get? On an off note I got four of those star sapphires in my order of ten special and the other two at gencon as pulls. By the end of my first run I had enough gold to trade for two reserve bars I didn't score any loot other than gold and candle sticks =D.

Most people are not willing to trade URs for non-URs and it's just that simple. You might be able to get someone to swap UR consumables for reds but that's likely it short of something really extraordinary.

Basically, it's only an even trade if both parties feel that it's an even trade.  Everyone values different tokens differently, so to get a good trade you have to find a situation where both parties are happy with what they are trading and getting.  Henwy is right though, it is very rare to find someone willing to trade a PURP for non-PURP's.  I've done a few of those trades (both ways) but nearly all of my PURP trades have had both parties trading a PURP.  <br /><br />I doubt you'd find anyone willing to trade a +2 Bracers for 2000 GP, but you might find someone willing to trade a PURP for 1000 GP and five Potions Death's Doors.  The best way to do it is post in the forums what you have and what you're looking for, and see if anyone responds. 

Eh. Mike's always been of the school of whatever two people agree to is 'fair' by definition but I think it's bunk. There is an objective level of value to these things. We all know when someone has been 'ripped off' even if they feel pretty good about the deal at the time. While sometimes that occurs because a person is simply generous or doesn't care about the value of the items, in the vast majority, it's simple ignorance.<br /><br />Lets say someone is willing to trade a dollar for a loaf of bread because they're hungry. Both parties might walk away from the transaction happy as hell about it. I don't think that alone would make it fair if we all knew at the time that any other person on the street would have offered two loaves of bread or more for the same dollar if only they had known someone wanted bread.

I do agree that it is wrong to take advantage of someone in a trade, especially when they don't understand the values of tokens.  I don't agree that there is some concrete set of values for tokens, whether some price guide or Ebay sales or whatever.  There just isn't the quantity of sales or documented trades of Treasure Tokens necessary to set any baseline.  If you compare the relative value of tokens on the Price Guide and on Ebay Sales, you'll get very different results - and even Ebay Sales prices are changing all the time, and people could never agree on what the prices in the price guide should be.  People value different tokens differently, and I think that's how you get real win-win trades actually, because it lets both parties get back tokens of equal or greater value to them than what they traded.  <br /><br />

I've gotten an UR in trade for gold and gems.  Again, it matters that both sides are satisfied.  I wouldn't find much value in Nightshade's Sword (unless I got raven to sign it!), since I don't play Rogues, but I would find value in the gold/healing I could trade it for.  On the other hand, I would not trade my Ring of Wizardry, or AoW, no matter the amount offered.

There is truth to all of these comments. The most important thing is that both parties be satisfied, but that also assumes that both parties have a reasonable understanding of the value of the tokens, which may not always be the case. The price guide is helpful but it is only a guide. The safest approach is to educate yourself about the value of the tokens before you trade. Failing that, ask someone you trust or put them on Ebay and let the open market decide.

Yeah, you should definitely take steps to make sure you aren't taken advantage of (rats, ended a sentence with a preposition!).<br />

That's good advice, to get some outside opinions on the trade if you're unsure.  There have been a couple of trades I did that I asked my Bro's opinion on before finalizing them, as I value his opinion (heck, my first trade ever was with him, and it was for tokens that I'm sure we both still value and have). 

Your best bet to accomplish the trade you outline might be to place the tokens up for sale for cash, and then spend the cash on the tokens that you really want.  Death's Door is worth a fair bit, but you might not find someone with the token you're after who values it enough to take it in trade.  However, they might value the cash enough to accept that. <br /><br />Ahhh... the wonders of commerce. 

<br />Eh. Mike's always been of the school of whatever two people agree to is 'fair' by definition but I think it's bunk. There is an objective level of value to these things. We all know when someone has been 'ripped off' even if they feel pretty good about the deal at the time. While sometimes that occurs because a person is simply generous or doesn't care about the value of the items, in the vast majority, it's simple ignorance.<br />

<br /><br />Although, if you want to talk about objectivity, there's really no inherently *magical* value to a token being Purple.  People who insist on trading only Purp for Purp are deluded.  If a Purple has an objective value of $120, determined by something like ebay sales, and you also have 6 reds that sell for $20 each, then those 6 reds are equal to that one Purp.  Objectively.  Now, in practice, there are some things that drive up the perceived value of a purple.  1) They are harder to get.  Yes, they are hard to get - but you can be guaranteed a Purp with a $250 order - you are NOT guaranteed 6 Potions of Death's Door.  Those are, statistically, harder to get.  2)  Purps trade better.  That's a fact.  Few people will trade a Purple for a pile of reds.  3)  Purps are easier to sell.  Also true.  Selling a single Purp is cheap and easy (in ebay terms) compared to selling an equivalent value of Reds.  <br /><br />So, when you're trading Reds for Purps, expect a markup, driven by points 2 and 3.  In a strictly trade-based economy, few people want to trade Purp for Reds, because then they are stuck with Reds that they can't later trade for Purps.  From a strictly financial standpoint, you can probably trade $200 worth of Reds for a $100 Purp.  You can expect a markup like that, because of the time and effort and fees associated with liquidating those Reds.  If someone isn't willing to take $200 worth of Reds for a $100 Purp, then they really aren't being objective.  They're buying into the *Magical* Purple mentality.  <br /><br />I once traded about 30 Reds for a single Purple.  Comparing the dollar values on each end, I was trading about 2:1.  I was glad to get that Purple, but in retrospect, I should have just bought that Purple in cash, and sold that pile of reds.  It would have taken more effort, but in terms of value, I would have come out ahead by doing that.  Instead of getting just the Purp, I'd have gotten the Purp and had about $50-$75 left from the excess value of the Reds.  But, I was happy with that trade because it's much harder to liquidate 30 Reds than it is to trade them for a single Purple.  <br /><br />So, what Mike Steele said:<br />It's a fair trade if both parties agree that it's a fair trade - given that both parties understand the value of what's being traded.  <br /><br />And I'll add that Ebay is not an absolute, but it is a market-determined value.  So, I generally take that into account when determining the value of tokens.  True, the sales there are too few and random to really consider Ebay prices to be anything absolute.  But they make good data points. <br />

So is a Red Elixir of Life worth less than the Purple Elixir of Life? How about a 2004 vs. a 2005b, or a 2005a vs. a 2005b of the same item?