TOPIC: Thanks and Thoughts on True Dungeon GENCON 2018

Mike Steele wrote:

Mike Naglee wrote:

Michelle wrote: We helped the prisoner escape and did not get that clue. Our party played on normal and went into room five pretty beat up and disheartened. Having our entire party killed in room five on normal was one of the most un-fun moments I've had playing TD. The DM tried to hide is delight at his TPK and the prisoner giggled awkwardly as we barely cared to try to solve the last two puzzles rooms. That clue could have been the difference between N2 being my worst TD run ever and just not making my favorites list. If that had been my first run, I don't think I would have ever played again.

Sorry to hear that, Michelle - I've made a note to add "Check that the NPC in Room 5 remembers the cage hint" to the adventure coordinator's rounds for N2 so that we can make sure this doesn't happen again.

We got the hint from the prisoner after we let her out, but we didn't trust her enough to step into the cage, we've had NPCs turn on us before. She was wonderful though, as were all the Volunteers.

Agree on that Mike, why my group ignored that npc effectively.

Though I as a volunteer have learned to be personally suspicious of a event operations manager when he comes up to me on shift and asks 'hows it going, I need a favor' with that smirk on his face. I give credit to said event ops as he never stops moving during con but does take time talk to us lowly base volunteers.

I was suspicious of the NPC as well... so I ran a quick Detect Evil. Granted, she could have been a neutral trickster, but I thought the odds were good at that point.

TD was an amazing experience this year. The visuals, the NPCs and the GMs all were top notch. I unfortunately won't make it to Gamehole Con, but I am sooo looking forward to Origins!!

Elerena wrote: I was suspicious of the NPC as well... so I ran a quick Detect Evil. Granted, she could have been a neutral trickster, but I thought the odds were good at that point.

That was a really good idea, I'll have to remember that for the future.

All in all, the experience was incredible- the design in N1, almost all the puzzles, the staff in general (And ESPECIALLY the NPC in the cage with the frost giants, she was by far the highlight of the staff for me!). The only real complaint I could have was audio issues- I'm slightly hard of hearing, and it was next to impossible to make out the recorded speeches in several rooms.

The group that I play TD with are three 14 year veterans along with a four year veteran, and we are at a mostly purple level (about 15 per character).
We usually supplement the group with three to five new players that we outfit with a Rare-level class build.

The group had a lot of difficulty at the Hardcore level this year and last year, and we may be losing a veteran player (14 years!) over it this year.
We played Hardcore on N2 and N1--when we could get all the characters to 5th level, and all but two of the classes had some Ultra-Rare tokens.

The difficulty at Hardcore (which was the level we've been playing for many years) has gone beyond what our veteran status and Ultra-Rare tokens can have fun while doing the dungeon.
We all survived the dungeons, but the combat and puzzles were dissatisfying (and upsetting to some).

We are planning on playing Normal going forward, and maybe we won't lose the veteran player.
We have come to the conclusion that Hardcore is no longer the "bridging" difficulty level that it used to be (between new players on Normal and the collectors on Nightmare).

While I (personally) had a good time and enjoyed the dungeons, the exiting player said that they either weren't smart enough or rich enough to continue playing TD.
This makes me sad and concerned for the future of new (and casual) players.

Lord of Mistakes wrote: The group that I play TD with are three 14 year veterans along with a four year veteran, and we are at a mostly purple level (about 15 per character).
We usually supplement the group with three to five new players that we outfit with a Rare-level class build.

The group had a lot of difficulty at the Hardcore level this year and last year, and we may be losing a veteran player (14 years!) over it this year.
We played Hardcore on N2 and N1--when we could get all the characters to 5th level, and all but two of the classes had some Ultra-Rare tokens.

The difficulty at Hardcore (which was the level we've been playing for many years) has gone beyond what our veteran status and Ultra-Rare tokens can have fun while doing the dungeon.
We all survived the dungeons, but the combat and puzzles were dissatisfying (and upsetting to some).

We are planning on playing Normal going forward, and maybe we won't lose the veteran player.
We have come to the conclusion that Hardcore is no longer the "bridging" difficulty level that it used to be (between new players on Normal and the collectors on Nightmare).

While I (personally) had a good time and enjoyed the dungeons, the exiting player said that they either weren't smart enough or rich enough to continue playing TD.
This makes me sad and concerned for the future of new (and casual) players.

Sorry to hear that - I think there was an acknowledged erm... “tuning” issue with N2 for hardcore.

It would be great if hardcore was targeted at optimized red builds with maybe 1-2 urs and 1-2 volunteer tokens.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Lord of Mistakes wrote: The group that I play TD with are three 14 year veterans along with a four year veteran, and we are at a mostly purple level (about 15 per character).
We usually supplement the group with three to five new players that we outfit with a Rare-level class build.

The group had a lot of difficulty at the Hardcore level this year and last year, and we may be losing a veteran player (14 years!) over it this year.
We played Hardcore on N2 and N1--when we could get all the characters to 5th level, and all but two of the classes had some Ultra-Rare tokens.

The difficulty at Hardcore (which was the level we've been playing for many years) has gone beyond what our veteran status and Ultra-Rare tokens can have fun while doing the dungeon.
We all survived the dungeons, but the combat and puzzles were dissatisfying (and upsetting to some).

We are planning on playing Normal going forward, and maybe we won't lose the veteran player.
We have come to the conclusion that Hardcore is no longer the "bridging" difficulty level that it used to be (between new players on Normal and the collectors on Nightmare).

While I (personally) had a good time and enjoyed the dungeons, the exiting player said that they either weren't smart enough or rich enough to continue playing TD.
This makes me sad and concerned for the future of new (and casual) players.

Sorry to hear that - I think there was an acknowledged erm... “tuning” issue with N2 for hardcore.

It would be great if hardcore was targeted at optimized red builds with maybe 1-2 urs and 1-2 volunteer tokens.

I hope so, I've played hardcore for years and until the con felt very comfortable in it with my group. This year seems like a whoa this is different wall on difficulty. I used to consider myself hardcore+, now i'd consider myself base hardcore. I'm a mostly UR build and my group all have approx 3-6 UR's each for the most part. IF this is hardcore going forward fine, I just wonder and hope not as it felt like wall.

Wonder/hope balance can be better tuned, or even a better official recommendation stat wise of what TD expects to handle what difficulty.

Matt wrote: Wonder/hope balance can be better tuned, or even a better official recommendation stat wise of what TD expects to handle what difficulty.

I thought our group was normal ready with 3-5 URs and a few 5th levels, cleric being one focused on healing, and we lost one on normal to the giants.

macXdmg wrote:

Matt wrote: Wonder/hope balance can be better tuned, or even a better official recommendation stat wise of what TD expects to handle what difficulty.

I thought our group was normal ready with 3-5 URs and a few 5th levels, cleric being one focused on healing, and we lost one on normal to the giants.

If my group didn't have a nightmare cleric and epic geared wizard we would've taken casualties. Puzzles bled us quite a bit going into combats. I didn't mind the challenge, just wasn't what I've got to expect over the years.

Not sure if the modules are being tuned or fact i'm playing enough but by the 2nd/3rd con (i've done every Origins and GHC to date) hardcore doesn't feel nearly like the terror/gulf as at Indy. Despite running the same run several times at Indy normally.

-My group was all 5th lvl, AC's mid 20's and primary weapon to hit in mid 10's. HP range 30-40sh aside from Paladin/Wizard/Dwarf.

Question for other dungeoneers:

Was the only way to bypass the goblin's damage resistance on nightmare really 2-piece eldritch?

Was the information "dock with the rear" provided by the DM in the navigation puzzle?

I am waiting for the module books for answers to these questions, but am curious if other groups had different results.

Matthew Hayward mentioned it in his review post, but it really felt like Icecrag Heroes Earcuff was a difference maker in the giant fight this year. Getting the NPC hint, and trusting her enough to act on it also seemed to be a really big deal.

Between the constant AOE and the retribution damage, the Giant fight was crazy.

Did the Giants lead right into the tree puzzle? I don't recall.