TOPIC: Gamehole email 6/7/21

edwin wrote: A 5 year old died from covid In Dallas County as reported on July 24, 2020.

A 2 month old died from covid in Michigan as reported September 17, 2020.

According to CDC, Over 42,000 people died in traffic accidents in 2020, including over 1000 kids 14 and younger.
If we demanded 100% safety we’d never get in a car, let alone put our kids in one.

“My body my choice,” so no untested experimental vaccines for me. And while my kids are well over 12, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t get them jabbed either considering there has been NO study of long term effects of having your mRNA modified. Unlike the MMR, polio, etc vaccines that have been around and tested for decades and don’t rewrite your genes. But I respect everyone’s right to make their own decisions.

And no, the COVID vaccines have not been approved, just granted emergency use authorization.

GHC was going to be my only con this year. I was looking forward to seeing you guys again and getting back to normal. Maybe next year.

Mike Steele wrote:

edwin wrote: Be interested in seeing how they intrepret 12 and under. Is that as of Thursday the day GameholeCon starts or some other date. Or if one turns 13 during the con then they are all of the sudden required to have the vaccine in order to continue their attendance.

I'd hope they would interpret it so that someone would have had to turn 13 long enough ago to have been able to get both shots of a two shot vaccine and have it be fully effective, and anyone younger than that could attend. You have a good point that it is a loophole/flaw in their policy.

I'm not a big fan of requiring children to get the vaccine given their much lower transmission rate and less seriousness (on average) of the condition if they do. It seems like that should be up to the Parent instead of being mandated by the Government or Businesses.

And I would much rather vaccines be required regardless of age. My wife and I are not taking our kids to any conventions this year because it is not safe. It probably isn't going to be like having a few adults who can't get vaccinated, where they are spread out over the whole con. Most of the kids attending will congregate at certain events targeting children. So, you get many unvaccinated children all together. All it takes is one positive case in the group and you can have a super spreader event despite all the adults being vaccinated. I'm sure as hell not taking that chance with my kids.
And don't even start into the 'well, that's your choice.' bullshit. If we don't get covid under control, it will eventually mutate and start infecting vaccinated people. Large gathering of unvaccinated people (children or adults) is irresponsible and puts everyone at risk.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

edwin wrote: A 5 year old died from covid In Dallas County as reported on July 24, 2020.

A 2 month old died from covid in Michigan as reported September 17, 2020.

According to CDC, Over 42,000 people died in traffic accidents in 2020, including over 1000 kids 14 and younger.
If we demanded 100% safety we’d never get in a car, let alone put our kids in one.

“My body my choice,” so no untested experimental vaccines for me. And while my kids are well over 12, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t get them jabbed either considering there has been NO study of long term effects of having your mRNA modified. Unlike the MMR, polio, etc vaccines that have been around and tested for decades and don’t rewrite your genes. But I respect everyone’s right to make their own decisions.

And no, the COVID vaccines have not been approved, just granted emergency use authorization.

GHC was going to be my only con this year. I was looking forward to seeing you guys again and getting back to normal. Maybe next year.

We have safety laws regarding cars that keep that death toll low, there is no way to make it 0 as people do dumb stuff all the time. On your claim they are untested, that isn't true, they rain trials prior to the EUA. You can choose to not get vaccinated, but that choice can impact others. I chose to get the shots because of that reason. I will also link to story that relates to your claim of the vaccine rewriting your genes in case anyone wants to read it.

sciencebasedmedicine.org/rna-vaccines-against-covid-19-will-not-permanently-alter-your-dna/

Brad Mortensen wrote:

edwin wrote: A 5 year old died from covid In Dallas County as reported on July 24, 2020.

A 2 month old died from covid in Michigan as reported September 17, 2020.

According to CDC, Over 42,000 people died in traffic accidents in 2020, including over 1000 kids 14 and younger.
If we demanded 100% safety we’d never get in a car, let alone put our kids in one.

“My body my choice,” so no untested experimental vaccines for me. And while my kids are well over 12, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t get them jabbed either considering there has been NO study of long term effects of having your mRNA modified. Unlike the MMR, polio, etc vaccines that have been around and tested for decades and don’t rewrite your genes. But I respect everyone’s right to make their own decisions.

And no, the COVID vaccines have not been approved, just granted emergency use authorization.

GHC was going to be my only con this year. I was looking forward to seeing you guys again and getting back to normal. Maybe next year.

I have no intention of getting into a fight over this, but I think you're operating on some bad data, and I wanted to provide some context and sources. There are two things in particular that stand out:

1. The Covid vaccines are thoroughly tested. While they don't have full FDA authorization yet, they have been tested on tens of thousands of people. The testing timeline was compressed mostly by throwing a ton of money at it to subsidize failure so that pharma companies could do it all at once instead of little by little in case something didn't work. There was a LOT of testing: www.fda.gov/media/139638/download

2. mRNA vaccines do not modify your genes. I can see where this misunderstanding comes from, RNA and DNA are similar, but they're not the same thing. DNA is your genetic code, RNA is not. At no point does mRNA go into the cell's nucleus. It goes into the cell, makes the cell create the spike protein, and then disintegrates. There are no changes to your genetic code whatsoever. These are the first vaccines that are publically released using mRNA, but the technology has been studied and in development for a long time before Covid-19 was a thing. Again, there is no change to your genetic code, they can't do that. www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html#:~:text=mRNA%20vaccines%20have%20been%20studied,into%20an%20mRNA%20vaccine .

Josh M. wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

edwin wrote: A 5 year old died from covid In Dallas County as reported on July 24, 2020.

A 2 month old died from covid in Michigan as reported September 17, 2020.

According to CDC, Over 42,000 people died in traffic accidents in 2020, including over 1000 kids 14 and younger.
If we demanded 100% safety we’d never get in a car, let alone put our kids in one.

“My body my choice,” so no untested experimental vaccines for me. And while my kids are well over 12, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t get them jabbed either considering there has been NO study of long term effects of having your mRNA modified. Unlike the MMR, polio, etc vaccines that have been around and tested for decades and don’t rewrite your genes. But I respect everyone’s right to make their own decisions.

And no, the COVID vaccines have not been approved, just granted emergency use authorization.

GHC was going to be my only con this year. I was looking forward to seeing you guys again and getting back to normal. Maybe next year.

I have no intention of getting into a fight over this, but I think you're operating on some bad data, and I wanted to provide some context and sources. There are two things in particular that stand out:

1. The Covid vaccines are thoroughly tested. While they don't have full FDA authorization yet, they have been tested on tens of thousands of people. The testing timeline was compressed mostly by throwing a ton of money at it to subsidize failure so that pharma companies could do it all at once instead of little by little in case something didn't work. There was a LOT of testing: www.fda.gov/media/139638/download

2. mRNA vaccines do not modify your genes. I can see where this misunderstanding comes from, RNA and DNA are similar, but they're not the same thing. DNA is your genetic code, RNA is not. At no point does mRNA go into the cell's nucleus. It goes into the cell, makes the cell create the spike protein, and then disintegrates. There are no changes to your genetic code whatsoever. These are the first vaccines that are publically released using mRNA, but the technology has been studied and in development for a long time before Covid-19 was a thing. Again, there is no change to your genetic code, they can't do that. www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html#:~:text=mRNA%20vaccines%20have%20been%20studied,into%20an%20mRNA%20vaccine .

Although I agree the vaccines have had a lot of testing, I also agree with Brad that there have been no studies of the long-term affects of these vaccines (if any), because they were made available in an expedited emergency manner without obviously any time to study long-term effects. It is a new type of vaccine, and it's not unreasonable to be concerned that it might have some unexpected long-term side effects.

Mike Steele wrote: Although I agree the vaccines have had a lot of testing, I also agree with Brad that there have been no studies of the long-term affects of these vaccines (if any), because they were made available in an expedited emergency manner without obviously any time to study long-term effects. It is a new type of vaccine, and it's not unreasonable to be concerned that it might have some unexpected long-term side effects.

Cutting out my part because it's long and not overly relevant to what I'm responding to.

Respectfully, your information is also not accurate. mRNA has been used in human trials for over a decade. While this specific application of using it to provoke a response against the Covid specific spike protein is new, using it to provoke an immune response in general is not. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18481387/ The way that the vaccine uses to put the mRNA into the system has been used in a lot of ways in humans in the past as well: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5489929/

People that were part of the trials of the covid specific mRNA vaccines were monitored for months with few long term side effects. This does demonstrate that there shouldn't be any major long term side effects as well, especially because the mRNA breaks down rapidly after it does its job, it doesn't stay in your system.

So, we have a technology that's been tested for a decade, a vaccine that breaks down and doesn't stay in your system long term, and continued monitoring for the better part of a year for an application that isn't actually all that novel or new that shows that it's not dangerous long term. What more testing do you feel is necessary to show that it's safe?

Josh M. wrote:
2. mRNA vaccines do not modify your genes. I can see where this misunderstanding comes from, RNA and DNA are similar, but they're not the same thing. DNA is your genetic code, RNA is not. At no point does mRNA go into the cell's nucleus. It goes into the cell, makes the cell create the spike protein, and then disintegrates. There are no changes to your genetic code whatsoever. These are the first vaccines that are publically released using mRNA, but the technology has been studied and in development for a long time before Covid-19 was a thing. Again, there is no change to your genetic code, they can't do that. www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html#:~:text=mRNA%20vaccines%20have%20been%20studied,into%20an%20mRNA%20vaccine .

Kind of wish they could change my DNA then I could be thinner, stronger, faster, better looking, younger looking, and longer living!

balthasar wrote: On your claim they are untested, that isn't true, they rain trials prior to the EUA. You can choose to not get vaccinated, but that choice can impact others. I chose to get the shots because of that reason. I will also link to story that relates to your claim of the vaccine rewriting your genes in case anyone wants to read it.

Look, I don’t want this to turn into a pro-vs-con vaccine thread, but:

I didn’t say they’re “untested.” I said there was no long-term study. There can’t be; it’s only been a year. But there hasn’t been any animal testing. We are the guinea pigs.

And I didn’t say it rewrites your DNA. I know that mRNA =/= DNA, but I lumped them together as “genes” for brevity.

However, If you think an mRNA vaccine cannot rewrite your DNA, this study begs to differ: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33330870/

So what happens if it turns some of your cells into COVID factories that won’t shut off? We don’t know if it will, or what will happen if it does. Sounds perilous.

I test software for a living. Want to guess how many times devs have delivered flawless software to us? Zero. Or how many programs we put into production without defects. Same answer. My team found a bug in mainframe code that was actively giving bad results for over 20 years until we caught it.

And “genes” are code, perhaps the softest of software, that tell your body how to make and do things. So I’m cautious about taking those risks for a vaccine with a 99.72% survival rate.

Besides, we’ve found treatments for the virus. Vitamin D, zinc, HCQ... none of which were promoted because the wrong person recommended them. And CDC now says asymptomatic spread isn’t a thing after all - at least that’s what they said two months ago.

(Have you read the vaccine disclosures?)

Nobody should be allowed to coerce people to take an experimental drug when one of the listed potential side effects is death. Especially when the companies that make them have zero liability in case of death or other “discomfort.” In fact, there was a trial in the ‘40s in a little town called Nuremberg where every nation on earth agreed you can’t perform medical experiments on people without their constant. So I’m just exercising my right by international treaty to withhold mine. Plus I don’t like the idea of getting injected with something created from an unborn human baby, even if (most of) it is filtered out. It strikes me as ghoulish.

Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe I’m not. Maybe we all are. I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything other than that my decision, even though tinged with emotion, is in my opinion an informed logical one which I concede reasonable people may disagree with.

So unless I’m misquoted again I have nothing more to say about it.

I truly hope all my friends have fun at GHC.

Your words: Unlike the MMR, polio, etc vaccines that have been around and tested for decades and don’t rewrite your genes

My words: I will also link to story that relates to your claim of the vaccine rewriting your genes in case anyone wants to read it.

Did I misquote you?
Nobody is forcing you get vaccinated, that is your choice. I firmly believe that an event like GHC has the right to ask the attendees to be vaccinated or not attend. In the US, the virus has infected 32,803,566 people and killed 590,797 people, which is 1.8% of the people infected. Worldwide it has infected 173,101,490 and killed 3,731,634, which is 2.15%. Neither of those would lead me to believe the survival rate is 99.72%. How do you arrive at that number? I have also included a link below to address the following statement you made: "Plus I don’t like the idea of getting injected with something created from an unborn human baby, even if (most of) it is filtered out." You could choose to not get the Johnson & Johnson vaccine if you have concerns.

www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/you-asked-we-answered-do-the-covid-19-vaccines-contain-aborted-fetal-cells

Thread lock on aisle 1?

No coercion.

Your options if you are vaccinated:
A. Don't attend.
B. Attend

Your options if you are not vaccinated
A. Don't attend.

Simple.

Attendance at a private event is not an absolute right.

balthasar wrote: Your words: Unlike the MMR, polio, etc vaccines that have been around and tested for decades and don’t rewrite your genes

My words: I will also link to story that relates to your claim of the vaccine rewriting your genes in case anyone wants to read it.

Did I misquote you?
Nobody is forcing you get vaccinated, that is your choice. I firmly believe that an event like GHC has the right to ask the attendees to be vaccinated or not attend. In the US, the virus has infected 32,803,566 people and killed 590,797 people, which is 1.8% of the people infected. Worldwide it has infected 173,101,490 and killed 3,731,634, which is 2.15%. Neither of those would lead me to believe the survival rate is 99.72%. How do you arrive at that number? I have also included a link below to address the following statement you made: "Plus I don’t like the idea of getting injected with something created from an unborn human baby, even if (most of) it is filtered out." You could choose to not get the Johnson & Johnson vaccine if you have concerns.

www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/you-asked-we-answered-do-the-covid-19-vaccines-contain-aborted-fetal-cells

I don't think your Death Rate is accurate. You are correct that the Death Rate taking into account known cases and deaths is around 1.8% (assuming everyone reported of dying of COVID actually did rather than dying of something else and being reported as COVID - i.e. how many of those people would have died even if they didn't contract COVID), but that's not the death rate of infected people. There were far more people infected than the 32.8M known cases and therefore the resulting Death Rate of all infected people is significantly lower.