TOPIC: 2023 Transmuted Beta Token Images

Here are the big ones. We decided to make a few lesser powerful (and costly!) Relics and Legendaries this year, but they will come in handy in any dungeon adventure. I hope some folks can make their first Relic or Legendary this year.

truedungeon.com/files/Transmuted2023.jpg

Glad to see the power on both of the relics bumped up, and that they will be more available for players to chase.

I still think that the shirt should have a unique name vs set name, like all of the Eldritch ones did and to have more design space for the ring and what is else to come, but will leave it at that after this round. Adventurer's Shirt, Shirt of the Master, Shirt of the Ruler, Shirt of Destiny, Shirt of Balance, etc

Phil

Thanks, Jeff! I think it's great that the Relics & Legendary tokens this year are easier to transmute, but I'm a bit concerned that there will be a glut of Trade Item tokens if there aren't any transmuted tokens in the set pulling a bunch of trade item tokens out of circulation. Although, I could see the new Map pulling a bunch out if the quantities available aren't too limited.

Should there be any restriction on the Ioun Stones stacking? Even though it would take up 3 slots, combined they would heal 9 points per room. My first thought is that it is probably OK to stack.

Also, is it possible to add a 4C Storyline transmute this year? I think we're due for one.

I say make the Greaves 5/10/20 as 30 seems too much, especially if they have the Horn and Cloak of Shadowskin.

Rob F wrote: I say make the Greaves 5/10/20 as 30 seems too much, especially if they have the Horn and Cloak of Shadowskin.

I would also like 5/10/20 better as a progression for the damage cancelling properties of the greaves.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Rob F wrote: I say make the Greaves 5/10/20 as 30 seems too much, especially if they have the Horn and Cloak of Shadowskin.

I would also like 5/10/20 better as a progression for the damage cancelling properties of the greaves.

Agreed 5/10/20 seems better, but does it really matter that much. Basically, at relic and legendary level it will suck up one big hit from the BBEG. If he does 30 it counters it, if he does 20 it counters it. So if the goal if being able to absorb one big hit, then really 30 is fine. It is only once a game.

Definitely excited about the shirt, ring, and map. Amulet, hat, and potion are all fine tokens.

Guessing the ship has sailed on what the greaves are, as the basic concept hasn't changed. I guess I'll see what the recipe is, but I won't be chasing these. Same with the Ioun Stone, I actually like it quite a bit, it's fun. But maybe not really that powerful. Would probably look to complete 1 relic IS to go on my Pally build so I'm regenerating 7 points per room (already have Templar's set and Icecrag). Then maybe I'll try some wacky dump AC build for the Pally so I get hit more and then regen it.

David Harris wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Rob F wrote: I say make the Greaves 5/10/20 as 30 seems too much, especially if they have the Horn and Cloak of Shadowskin.

I would also like 5/10/20 better as a progression for the damage cancelling properties of the greaves.

Agreed 5/10/20 seems better, but does it really matter that much. Basically, at relic and legendary level it will suck up one big hit from the BBEG. If he does 30 it counters it, if he does 20 it counters it. So if the goal if being able to absorb one big hit, then really 30 is fine. It is only once a game.

It's around that point where I gotta wonder why we even bother with a damage number at all. Why not just something like "absorbs one hit per game"? I guess you could do the same for the relic, only restrict it to melee/missile (either way it's still just a worse shadowskin).

Jeff Martin wrote: Here are the big ones. We decided to make a few lesser powerful (and costly!) Relics and Legendaries this year, but they will come in handy in any dungeon adventure. I hope some folks can make their first Relic or Legendary this year.

Jeff, I'm not sure it is a good idea to make Relics/Legendaries that are intentionally below the power curve and cost established by existing Relics/Legendaries. When more casual players have heard for years that Relics/Legendaries regularly sell for around $X/$Y, if they pull one next year and then find that no one will offer them anywhere near that amount, it feels like that could be a bit of a let down. Though maybe I'm picturing a bigger delta than you have in mind.

My concerns with the greaves are a few things.
1. The relic and legendary are a gigantic power step up from -2 damage at rare.
2. We recently had to collect Cloak of Shadowskin because 1/room was too powerful. Now we're adding a way to do essentially the same effect 3/game (Shadowskin, Taborlin's Key, Legendary Greaves) We're basically getting back to 1/room. Yes, I know that each effect is a bit different, but they are close enough that design space gets limited, and it doesn't feel good to have your tokens worked around too often. We didn't see Taborlin's Key in token development, or I would have voiced this concern then.

I would agree with others that the Arcanum Shirt could use a different name, though I suppose the idea could be to keep the name of the set in the name of the tokens that belong to the set (like nearly all sets except the eldritch set). That could be, though I would lobby that at this level, it's ok for it not to be the case. Would make the Arcanum set feel more special, like Elemental Eldritch.
Should the Arcanum Shirt have the relic star on the bottom?

3* and 4* look great to me. Where would the 50 GP token transmute to now?

I'm simultaneously worried about and underwhelmed by the ioun stones. We were worried about too much healing with the Lenses of Divine Sight re-work, but this is not an issue? Either way, I don't think it's all that great of an effect, though I would probably throw together a fun templar build using as many as I can, just to be silly.

Hokay, some more formulated thoughts:

UR greaves: "-2 damage from energy type of choice (choose at start)."

Relic greaves: "-2 damage from all energy types." For this one I would also offer an alternate recipe, something like "can substitute X number of rare greaves in place of UR greaves (maybe like 10 or something- don't have to be unique)". Since this is a recipe that will be cycling, it could be designed more along the lines of sucking up some stacks of greaves/give people a reason to care about greaves beyond setting aside one or two (you'd have a better idea than us about how many greaves get mulched each year). Maybe if that doesn't feel relic-level enough it could instead be: "-2 damage from all energy types. Absorbs 1 melee or missile hit per game."

Legendary greaves: "-3 damage from all energy types. Can absorb 1 hit per game." Basically a strict upgrade from relic, with slightly higher resistance and the ability to absorb spells as well. Since this recipe is one that lasts forever, you could do something like "can substitute 8 different greaves in place of relic (presumably for acid, cold, shock, sonic, darkrift, fire, poison, sacred)", which wouldn't be possible until later down the line after the relic has cycled out.

Then change up the greaves printing slightly- start doing 2 elements each year, but the same total number of greaves (so instead of 5000 acid resist greaves, print 2500 each of acid and poison resist). Once all 8 types have been cycled through, start over again from the top, so greaves end up being on a 4-year cycle. Then, it lets people who are willing to stick around for a few years collect the pieces for a decent legendary if they do a bunch of adventures each year while simultaneously making greaves a more exciting draw from the treasure boxes for both newer players and older players who care about the secondary market.

Speaking from a wizard perspective (which I'm prone to do), the only thing here that gets me excited is the Arcanum Shirt (yeah, the name could change, but I love the color of the token).

The Ioun Stone and Greaves feel like something that would be nice to have, but not necessary unless I want to start soloing dungeons. Seriously, I slap on Shadowskin and these greaves, throw in my Absorb ability, and why do I need a paladin? I wear the Ioun Stones and why do I need a cleric? It feels like we're upsetting the dynamic of me being a glass cannon that can deal significant damage, but needs the support of the party to survive. Not so much anymore. Just my opinion.

The 3 and 4 star tokens seem adequate and something that will help upgrade newer players and/or introduce them to the world of transmuting.