TOPIC: 2027 Treasure Token Notes Round 7 <= Final?

Grizwald wrote: Jeff,

There’s a lot going on in this update and I’m not sure all of it’s good.

We’re getting 5 new slots in 2027: Codex, Face, Familiar, Grimoire, and Homunculus. This is a lot of new slots to design things for and fill. Several of these slots seem very similar to each other. Codex and Tomes are both types of books, Familiar and Homunculus are both helper creatures. I would propose adding a Tome slot the includes books, codex’s, grimoires, and tomes. Start with 3 or 4 slots. I know this would be most difficult for Casters at first because all the existing tomes are caster items. After there’s a tome slot, we can start making book for other classes. For the helpers, I would make them one slot instead of two. Making some choices for characters is a good thing.

We’re getting 60 chase items a year: 40 for the Grimoire, 20 for the Relic. In 2025 my group of 7 players get enough Runes to make 3.5 Rune Giants by running each VTD once and lots of trading. Trying to collect these tokens is fun and a community project. If we’re looking at collecting 60 chase tokens, we will need to increase how much we play, or the drop rate will need to change.

We’re going to have 6 multiyear transmutes happen all in the same year. We are dealing with having several multiyear transmutes be available right now and it is doing some wild things to the prices. Part of it is people are trying to get things ready for Ring Con deadlines. Having warning that it’s going to happen again in 3 years is not encouraging. I would suggest having a set of 3-year, 4-year, and 5-year transmutes to help stager the completion. I also don’t like needing a multi-year transmute in the next Arcanum piece, as that adds in an extra step to the transmute process.

We’re getting 6th level characters. I feel like this is going to take more time than token design does. What spells are casters going to get? Will any lower-level spells get changed out? Will people get new abilities? How will all the new class things interact with each other? What will the character cards look like? There will be some back and forth to determine the correct number so that 6th level isn’t completely overpowered. Plus, all the development that’s going to be needed. All of that takes time and effort to work through.

I do like having a roadmap of what’s to come over the next few years. It can help with planning and design. But there are some bumps in the road that need to be addressed or thought about.

I think these are valid points.

Sounds like everyone is beyond excited for what is to come, but some logistics need to be worked out. I agree that there's too many new slots coming. I was never big into D&D, but up until now I understood what each slot was. These new ones I have no idea what they are/mean. It looks like there are only 4 tomes in the token database. Plus a re-print next year. I like the idea of making this the new slot (the Tome slot or call it something new). How many books can a Cleric really carry around? Maybe they are magical and it doesn't matter, but maybe start with a 3 Tome limit. This forces the casters to make some decisions about the new ones coming with the transmutes.

For the Familiars (love these BTW), we also have Followers (which already has confused people on Discord that were asking if they needed a Safehold). Maybe merge Familiars and Followers. Then somehow find a way to equip this Homunculus (maybe it doesn't count against the Follower limit).

Umm did I read that where we can stack +1 levels in 2029?

Fearsome foes should it have +3 to spell damage as well?

James wrote: Umm did I read that where we can stack +1 levels in 2029?

Fearsome foes should it have +3 to spell damage as well?

As it stands, it will only be the Homunculus that can push you to 6th level. There may be other ways after 2029 but none are currently planned as of this moment.

James wrote: Umm did I read that where we can stack +1 levels in 2029?

Fearsome foes should it have +3 to spell damage as well?

It does, since Ranged Damage=Spell Damage, doesn't it?

Ben Krupa wrote:

James wrote: Umm did I read that where we can stack +1 levels in 2029?

Fearsome foes should it have +3 to spell damage as well?

It does, since Ranged Damage=Spell Damage, doesn't it?

It does you are correct, I had mentally thought it should be focus but that doesn't sit with the theme.

Also that's really cool a 3 year chase will combine at the end.

Maybe add light blue or bring back light green for the Ioun stones and move the light purple to the hegstones

Edit scratch that idea on light blue

Grizwald wrote: Jeff,

There’s a lot going on in this update and I’m not sure all of it’s good.

We’re getting 5 new slots in 2027: Codex, Face, Familiar, Grimoire, and Homunculus. This is a lot of new slots to design things for and fill. Several of these slots seem very similar to each other. Codex and Tomes are both types of books, Familiar and Homunculus are both helper creatures. I would propose adding a Tome slot the includes books, codex’s, grimoires, and tomes. Start with 3 or 4 slots. I know this would be most difficult for Casters at first because all the existing tomes are caster items. After there’s a tome slot, we can start making book for other classes. For the helpers, I would make them one slot instead of two. Making some choices for characters is a good thing.

We’re getting 60 chase items a year: 40 for the Grimoire, 20 for the Relic. In 2025 my group of 7 players get enough Runes to make 3.5 Rune Giants by running each VTD once and lots of trading. Trying to collect these tokens is fun and a community project. If we’re looking at collecting 60 chase tokens, we will need to increase how much we play, or the drop rate will need to change.

We’re going to have 6 multiyear transmutes happen all in the same year. We are dealing with having several multiyear transmutes be available right now and it is doing some wild things to the prices. Part of it is people are trying to get things ready for Ring Con deadlines. Having warning that it’s going to happen again in 3 years is not encouraging. I would suggest having a set of 3-year, 4-year, and 5-year transmutes to help stager the completion. I also don’t like needing a multi-year transmute in the next Arcanum piece, as that adds in an extra step to the transmute process.

We’re getting 6th level characters. I feel like this is going to take more time than token design does. What spells are casters going to get? Will any lower-level spells get changed out? Will people get new abilities? How will all the new class things interact with each other? What will the character cards look like? There will be some back and forth to determine the correct number so that 6th level isn’t completely overpowered. Plus, all the development that’s going to be needed. All of that takes time and effort to work through.

I do like having a roadmap of what’s to come over the next few years. It can help with planning and design. But there are some bumps in the road that need to be addressed or thought about.

Very valid points. I'm all for combining the Codex, Tome and Grimoire into a single slot. And the Familiar and Homunculus into a single slot.

I would think the UR Belt and the 2028 and 2029 UR's would transmute into a Relic Belt, right? Unless the 2028 and 2029 UR's aren't Belt's? Maybe I missed something somewhere, it's just strange a Belt is going to transmute into a Bead?? Don't we already have enough Relic level Beads? I think a Relic level Belt would be awesome, we haven't had one since 2012.

Rob F wrote:

Grizwald wrote: Jeff,

There’s a lot going on in this update and I’m not sure all of it’s good.

We’re getting 5 new slots in 2027: Codex, Face, Familiar, Grimoire, and Homunculus. This is a lot of new slots to design things for and fill. Several of these slots seem very similar to each other. Codex and Tomes are both types of books, Familiar and Homunculus are both helper creatures. I would propose adding a Tome slot the includes books, codex’s, grimoires, and tomes. Start with 3 or 4 slots. I know this would be most difficult for Casters at first because all the existing tomes are caster items. After there’s a tome slot, we can start making book for other classes. For the helpers, I would make them one slot instead of two. Making some choices for characters is a good thing.

We’re getting 60 chase items a year: 40 for the Grimoire, 20 for the Relic. In 2025 my group of 7 players get enough Runes to make 3.5 Rune Giants by running each VTD once and lots of trading. Trying to collect these tokens is fun and a community project. If we’re looking at collecting 60 chase tokens, we will need to increase how much we play, or the drop rate will need to change.

We’re going to have 6 multiyear transmutes happen all in the same year. We are dealing with having several multiyear transmutes be available right now and it is doing some wild things to the prices. Part of it is people are trying to get things ready for Ring Con deadlines. Having warning that it’s going to happen again in 3 years is not encouraging. I would suggest having a set of 3-year, 4-year, and 5-year transmutes to help stager the completion. I also don’t like needing a multi-year transmute in the next Arcanum piece, as that adds in an extra step to the transmute process.

We’re getting 6th level characters. I feel like this is going to take more time than token design does. What spells are casters going to get? Will any lower-level spells get changed out? Will people get new abilities? How will all the new class things interact with each other? What will the character cards look like? There will be some back and forth to determine the correct number so that 6th level isn’t completely overpowered. Plus, all the development that’s going to be needed. All of that takes time and effort to work through.

I do like having a roadmap of what’s to come over the next few years. It can help with planning and design. But there are some bumps in the road that need to be addressed or thought about.

Very valid points. I'm all for combining the Codex, Tome and Grimoire into a single slot. And the Familiar and Homunculus into a single slot.

The Homunculus feels more like a totem to me, seems like it should be slotless

I kind of would rather the spirit pet to be slotless too but have text that you can only have one spirit pet. If they are slotted the TD is going to try and feel those slots just like the marks this year.

Rob F wrote: I think a Relic level Belt would be awesome, we haven't had one since 2012.

We need it to be the Sporran of Dungeonbane to go with the kilt.

I'm definitely also concerned there is going to be a big trade good crunch come 2029 when all these come due.

I'm also on the side that the hagstone requiring the bead is looking prohibitively expensive to craft