TOPIC: NEW TV Premiers

<br />Actually, it seems very plausible.  <br /><br />As a race, the cylons are what, 40 years old?  There knowledge of humans is extremely limited and *gasp* they make mistakes.    They understand daily life enough to blend in but governing a group of humans requires unique experiences, lessons learned from wars, a body of knowledge passed through history, and a deeper understanding of the human condition.  <br /><br />Clearly the cylons don't have that and how would anyone expect them to.<br /><br />

<br />I still disagree completely. These are not simply people (the replicants) roaming society at large anymore. I'm sure it's easy to blend in when you're one person among a city of millions. After all, any weird misunderstandings or quirks you have will likely just be written off as some sort of mental defect. That is _not_ the case with the cylons that we have seen who have been on galactica this entire time. They have developed close interpersonal relationships to such a degree that any missteps would be absolutely inescapable of notice. They don't simply live in a one bedroom apartment somewhere and interact with maybe 1 or 2 people daily. They have joined a military organization where they are jam packed with individuals every day and only heightened by the fact that 1) most of the population has been annihilated and 2) everyone is on guard for replicants.<br /><br />It's just ridiculous at this point to believe that cylons don't have an almost perfect understanding of human nature. In order to approximate it so exactly that they can escape detection, they have to have a meta-knowledge of it and what any cylon learns, the rest know.<br /><br />AS for how long cylons have been around, it's a bit of a red herring really. It'd be different if we were trying to decide how long it would take humans to emulate the behavior of martians or something since we know generally how long it takes humans to absorb knowledge, generational time, etc. Computers have only been around for what, like 50 years or so? If a PC of today were to enage a human octagenarian in a long division challenge, it wouldn't be hard to know who to wager on despite years of existance.

<br />

<br />Actually, it seems very plausible.  <br /><br />As a race, the cylons are what, 40 years old?  There knowledge of humans is extremely limited and *gasp* they make mistakes.     They understand daily life enough to blend in but governing a group of humans requires unique experiences, lessons learned from wars, a body of knowledge passed through history, and a deeper understanding of the human condition.  <br /><br />Clearly the cylons don't have that and how would anyone expect them to.<br /><br />

<br />I still disagree completely. These are not simply people (the replicants) roaming society at large anymore. I'm sure it's easy to blend in when you're one person among a city of millions. After all, any weird misunderstandings or quirks you have will likely just be written off as some sort of mental defect. That is _not_ the case with the cylons that we have seen who have been on galactica this entire time. They have developed close interpersonal relationships to such a degree that any missteps would be absolutely inescapable of notice. They don't simply live in a one bedroom apartment somewhere and interact with maybe 1 or 2 people daily. They have joined a military organization where they are jam packed with individuals every day and only heightened by the fact that 1) most of the population has been annihilated and 2) everyone is on guard for replicants.<br /><br />It's just ridiculous at this point to believe that cylons don't have an almost perfect understanding of human nature. In order to approximate it so exactly that they can escape detection, they have to have a meta-knowledge of it and what any cylon learns, the rest know.<br />

<br /><br />Henwy, knowing how humans live and knowing the best way to rule them are two completely different things.  Hell, just look at the governments today.  There are more ways to "save" people than there are people in the world, different philosophies, approaches to confrontation, ideas on economy, stance on teaching religion, how to "protect" a population, etc..  You aren't really saying that because cylons spent time with humans in the mess hall that they wouldn't make mistakes in ruling them, are you?  Hanging out with people does not teach you how to rule them.  This is just silly.  I mean if you think about it, do the actions of World Leaders today make any more sense?  LOL! <br /><br />Quite to the contrary, I think if there were no mistakes made then BSG would be more like Star Trek where everything lines up perfectly and there is always a clear objective and answer.  No BSG takes a different approach where your enemy isn't who you think it is, where problems and solutions aren't clear and people (or cylons) mess up.  <br /><br />I think people that understand and like the show get this.<br /><br />Ok, I'll get off my soap box now.  =)

This sorta reminds me of another debate going on in another forum where someone remarked that it's an irrational mindset (referring to terrorist suicide bombers) and someone else commented that it's perfectly rational if you look at the situation from their point of view. That's the key. After all, to us, strapping bombs to yourself and blowing yourself up might seemed crazed or completely irrational, but if you take into consideration that what those people believe (The whole martyred heaven whozit with god knows how many virgins), it makes perfect sense. This holds with world leaders too and most individuals who aren't suffering from some sort of mental defect. In general, we all make rational decisions based on our beliefs, and it's the latter that are often screwed up.<br /><br />I'm not suggesting that the Cylons should be somehow super-rational as if they had all possible information about the universe. I'm simply suggesting they should be rational given the information they have and what they believe. Thus, I don't understand why the 'kill them all' faction dosen't just kill them all and why the 'love and peace' faction, dosen't in fact persue love and peace. It all seems half-assed on purpose, perhaps to draw those parallels and make the political statement that the show's writers are set on making. That however draws glaring problems which drives me bonkers.<br /><br />I just thought up an analogy of sorts....I've done a lot of animal behavioral research in my time, usually with rats. Rats are, in fact, the subject of choice for most of these sort of studies because they're plentiful, cheap, and hell, everyone else works with them so you at least can pull on and add to a known body of literature.<br /><br />If you have a rat in a cage and you're trying to get him to do something....for instance, chosing between two differently priced patches of food, you'll find that they tend to behave 'rationally' in that if one patch costs 10 and the other costs 5 (lever presses) they'll almost exclusively go to the 5. This however is not absolutely perfect. Over time, we've been able to tease apart various reasons why rats might not believe with 100% economic perfection. If we see abberant behavior, we can explain why it exists and that it's not really abberant. (in this case, the amount they go to the other patch depends on how often you vary prices. Simple.) Even with all this knowledge, it'd be incredibly presumptuous to believe that any human being controlling rat behavior could even come slightly close to mimicing true rat behavior. The cylons have, however, managed that so their degree of knowledge and understanding must be imense. Not simply able to diagnose a behavior after it occurs, but able to predict and followthrough on behavior to a degree that it is indistinguishable from a real subject. A hundred years of intensive study with rats hasn't even gotten us close to that.

um - i just like the irony that the cylons rebelled against us - and now they are trying to rule us just like we ruled them...oh and i especially like that they are creating life and trying to be more human.<br /><br />

It's a full blown oedipus complex.

<br />Thus, I don't understand why the 'kill them all' faction dosen't just kill them all and why the 'love and peace' faction, dosen't in fact persue love and peace. It all seems half-assed on purpose, perhaps to draw those parallels and make the political statement that the show's writers are set on making. That however draws glaring problems which drives me bonkers.<br />

<br /><br />Seems pretty obvious to me.  Clearly because there are multiple factions within the cylons, they try to compromise.  One faction just killing all the humans would likely lead to Civil War within the cylons.  No the purpose of the cylon occupation on New Caprica is evolving but right now, it is not "love and peace".  It is to teach and rehabilitate the humans and they have chosen totalitarianism as a means to achieve that goal. 

Every time a physics or political believability debate is brought into a fantasy or sci-fi setting, God kills a catgirl.<br /><br />Please, think of the catgirls.

for a different kind of premier, you might look into Dexter Sunday nights on Showtime.

<br />Every time a physics or political believability debate is brought into a fantasy or sci-fi setting, God kills a catgirl.<br /><br />Please, think of the catgirls.<br />

<br /><br />Reminds me of another saying about kittens...  =)

I'm just glad he didn't say a fairy/pixie falls down dead everytime thats said. Especially since i'm the only official pixie here. *gulp*<br />If that ever happens I hope you all remember to clap your hands.

Oh no, the clapping of hands method always revives any pixie/fairy.

<br />Oh no, the clapping of hands method always revives any pixie/fairy.<br />

<br /><br /><br />LOL!  For some reason, the Clapper popped into my head when I read this.  "Clap on, clap off, the clapper!"