Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: Red Monk with Benrow's and KoDB outdamages BiS Wizard in VTD

Red Monk with Benrow's and KoDB outdamages BiS Wizard in VTD 3 years 7 months ago #73

My memory is getting fuzzy about room 7 this year. It was treated as (at minimum) 3 creatures (I believe 5 for one of my runs.) We got the bard clue to determine that in multiple runs. One way to test it when V1 returns would be to try and lesser maze the central monster and see if the others also go away. My guess is they won't.

Wizard is definitely the king of multi-creature damage.

Lesser maze is an amazingly effective spell but is under-used. The biggest reason for that is it tends to confuse both GMs and other players. It would end a rage or make a summoned animal companion go away.

Wizard would improve at higher power levels with more spell diversity. Think about the last time you cast bull's strength running at nightmare. Maybe part of the answer is a different spell card being available for various levels of difficulty.

Fred
What do we want? Evidence based science! When do we want it? After peer review!

Elf Wizard build
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=570&id=247398

Rogue build
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=569&id=245490#287189

Items for Sale or Trade
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=583&id=247555

Items needed to complete my collection
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=61&id=253058

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Red Monk with Benrow's and KoDB outdamages BiS Wizard in VTD 3 years 7 months ago #74

Fred K wrote: My memory is getting fuzzy about room 7 this year. It was treated as (at minimum) 3 creatures (I believe 5 for one of my runs.) We got the bard clue to determine that in multiple runs. One way to test it when V1 returns would be to try and lesser maze the central monster and see if the others also go away. My guess is they won't.

Wizard is definitely the king of multi-creature damage.

Lesser maze is an amazingly effective spell but is under-used. The biggest reason for that is it tends to confuse both GMs and other players. It would end a rage or make a summoned animal companion go away.

Wizard would improve at higher power levels with more spell diversity. Think about the last time you cast bull's strength running at nightmare. Maybe part of the answer is a different spell card being available for various levels of difficulty.

Fred


My experience (HC, Saturday morning) in room 7 was the bard clue was something like:

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]


This doesn't necessarily mean that there were multiple monsters with distinct HP in the room. Monsters have had immune/weak spots before, or rooms have had 'furniture' or other hittable areas that weren't different monsters with distinct HP pools and/or weren't multiply effected by area of effect spells.

How did you determine it was treated as different monsters with different HP pools who were effected individually by area of effect spells?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.

Red Monk with Benrow's and KoDB outdamages BiS Wizard in VTD 3 years 7 months ago #75

Fred K wrote: My memory is getting fuzzy about room 7 this year. It was treated as (at minimum) 3 creatures (I believe 5 for one of my runs.) We got the bard clue to determine that in multiple runs. One way to test it when V1 returns would be to try and lesser maze the central monster and see if the others also go away. My guess is they won't.

Wizard is definitely the king of multi-creature damage.

Lesser maze is an amazingly effective spell but is under-used. The biggest reason for that is it tends to confuse both GMs and other players. It would end a rage or make a summoned animal companion go away.

Wizard would improve at higher power levels with more spell diversity. Think about the last time you cast bull's strength running at nightmare. Maybe part of the answer is a different spell card being available for various levels of difficulty.

Fred


I don't believe my lightning bolts were able to target one or the other in that room. The spell is all monsters so I believe the way it was calculated by the DM was on the main creature. I did multiple runs and it seemed consistent.
Please visit my fledgling token store.
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=583&id=247486

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Red Monk with Benrow's and KoDB outdamages BiS Wizard in VTD 3 years 7 months ago #76

You could destroy tentacles individually so I'm certain that each of them had separate hp. I'm not sure what would have happened if you only focused on the center creature - if you killed it, the tentacles probably died at the same time but I didn't see that happen in the runs I did.

Fred
What do we want? Evidence based science! When do we want it? After peer review!

Elf Wizard build
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=570&id=247398

Rogue build
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=569&id=245490#287189

Items for Sale or Trade
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=583&id=247555

Items needed to complete my collection
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=61&id=253058

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Red Monk with Benrow's and KoDB outdamages BiS Wizard in VTD 3 years 7 months ago #77

Fred K wrote: You could destroy tentacles individually so I'm certain that each of them had separate hp. I'm not sure what would have happened if you only focused on the center creature - if you killed it, the tentacles probably died at the same time but I didn't see that happen in the runs I did.

Fred


Interesting - were you on Nightmare?

On HC our DM didn't ask us about which tentacle we were attacking, and announced success all at once - but maybe they auto-piloted us from one to the other, or maybe HC rules were different.

We never attacked the center bit (explicitly anyway).

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Red Monk with Benrow's and KoDB outdamages BiS Wizard in VTD 3 years 7 months ago #78

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Fred K wrote: You could destroy tentacles individually so I'm certain that each of them had separate hp. I'm not sure what would have happened if you only focused on the center creature - if you killed it, the tentacles probably died at the same time but I didn't see that happen in the runs I did.

Fred


Interesting - were you on Nightmare?

On HC our DM didn't ask us about which tentacle we were attacking, and announced success all at once - but maybe they auto-piloted us from one to the other, or maybe HC rules were different.

We never attacked the center bit (explicitly anyway).

On nightmare we declared which we were attacking. We destroyed the left one first (round 2), then the right one (first attack of round 4).

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Red Monk with Benrow's and KoDB outdamages BiS Wizard in VTD 3 years 7 months ago #79

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Fred K wrote: You could destroy tentacles individually so I'm certain that each of them had separate hp. I'm not sure what would have happened if you only focused on the center creature - if you killed it, the tentacles probably died at the same time but I didn't see that happen in the runs I did.

Fred


Interesting - were you on Nightmare?

On HC our DM didn't ask us about which tentacle we were attacking, and announced success all at once - but maybe they auto-piloted us from one to the other, or maybe HC rules were different.

We never attacked the center bit (explicitly anyway).

On nightmare we declared which we were attacking. We destroyed the left one first (round 2), then the right one (first attack of round 4).


On my 2 nightmare runs, i don’t recall any difference and it was treated as one pool. On the epic run, after a certain Barbarian one-hit the first room, everything got turned to 11 which had the 7th room center stick around longer. Like 1 barbarian hit longer, but still.
$10 off at Trent Tokens!

Trade me stuff

Remember it's the year of the fighter!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Red Monk with Benrow's and KoDB outdamages BiS Wizard in VTD 3 years 7 months ago #80

I did 2 runs of HC, both times, the DMs made it clear the HP was tracked separately for left vs right. I assumed the center had infinite HP, no one ever targeted it, no one used an AoE attack, we figured it would still all count as one monster for AoE.
I play Wizard.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Red Monk with Benrow's and KoDB outdamages BiS Wizard in VTD 3 years 7 months ago #81

Mr Hayward makes some good points.

An assumption is that the melee attacks of monks and rangers is somewhat reduced by the added difficulty of double sliding. That isn’t a thing under current VTD rules.

If anyone made this point and I missed I apologize.

To make up for it, maybe the second swing should be at -5 or have a 50% chance of auto-missing or something.

"Ceci n'est pas une pipe" - Magritte

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Red Monk with Benrow's and KoDB outdamages BiS Wizard in VTD 3 years 7 months ago #82

Brad Mortensen wrote: Mr Hayward makes some good points.

An assumption is that the melee attacks of monks and rangers is somewhat reduced by the added difficulty of double sliding. That isn’t a thing under current VTD rules.

If anyone made this point and I missed I apologize.

To make up for it, maybe the second swing should be at -5 or have a 50% chance of auto-missing or something.


this would actually be ideal for VTD because its easier to implement in the app that it is in the dungeon. In 2nd ed, I believe a Ranger with 2 proficiency points in 2 weapon fighting would have a -4 to the offhand attack. Maybe stick with a -4 to the offhand attack roll?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Red Monk with Benrow's and KoDB outdamages BiS Wizard in VTD 3 years 7 months ago #83

  • Picc
  • Picc's Avatar
  • Offline
  • 10th Level
  • Supporter
  • Remember when we were explorers?
  • Posts: 7100

Endgame wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Mr Hayward makes some good points.

An assumption is that the melee attacks of monks and rangers is somewhat reduced by the added difficulty of double sliding. That isn’t a thing under current VTD rules.

If anyone made this point and I missed I apologize.

To make up for it, maybe the second swing should be at -5 or have a 50% chance of auto-missing or something.


this would actually be ideal for VTD because its easier to implement in the app that it is in the dungeon. In 2nd ed, I believe a Ranger with 2 proficiency points in 2 weapon fighting would have a -4 to the offhand attack. Maybe stick with a -4 to the offhand attack roll?


Be careful of anything easy to do in the app but hard to transition back to real life. At some point I would hope our plan is to go back to real life, and I would rather not be dependent on apps when that happens.
Semper Gumby, Always flexible.

Sartre sits in in a coffee shop and asks for a coffee without cream. The barista apologizes “Sorry, we don't have any cream. Can I offer you a coffee without milk instead?”

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Red Monk with Benrow's and KoDB outdamages BiS Wizard in VTD 3 years 7 months ago #84

Picc wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Mr Hayward makes some good points.

An assumption is that the melee attacks of monks and rangers is somewhat reduced by the added difficulty of double sliding. That isn’t a thing under current VTD rules.

If anyone made this point and I missed I apologize.

To make up for it, maybe the second swing should be at -5 or have a 50% chance of auto-missing or something.


this would actually be ideal for VTD because its easier to implement in the app that it is in the dungeon. In 2nd ed, I believe a Ranger with 2 proficiency points in 2 weapon fighting would have a -4 to the offhand attack. Maybe stick with a -4 to the offhand attack roll?


Be careful of anything easy to do in the app but hard to transition back to real life. At some point I would hope our plan is to go back to real life, and I would rather not be dependent on apps when that happens.

In real life, people actually have to slide with their offhand. Many times I’ve seen rangers end up way short or fly off the back of the board with their pucks.

Of course, most of those were red and under gen con only players... I’ve never played with an invested ranger veteran

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Endgame.
Time to create page: 0.105 seconds