TOPIC: FINAL Big Change to Powers Available on the Mark of Enlightenment

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: Also, I’m leery of the Eldritch runestone one. Many of those effects don’t lend themselves well to 1/game

I interpreted this as essentially you have the Eldritch Runestone equipped every game, so for instance you would get the +1 Bead each run, without having to consume a runestone. If it is meant as more of a psychic power activated while in the run, I agree that wouldn't make sense since Runestones are set in Coaching.

Phil

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Marc D wrote:

Dave wrote: I'm just not seeing it broken. I've spent an hour+ working on builds with or without the Mark. If I have two Earcuff slots or three Earcuff slots, here's where I land.

Charm Slots - 9 no change
Ioun Stone Slots - 9 no change
Bead Slots - 7 - no change

Can you share some builds? I'm happy if our initial reaction is flawed and that deeper analysis shows we're wrong.

Legendary bead bracelet
Orion’s belt
Earcuff of Orbits
Charm necklace
Flower fiend

Its not impossible to max out your slots by being inefficient, but what the ear Expander does is allow you to have more slots in other places easier. With this of tokens what you can now change due a Third Ear Slot is:

Swap Follow Fiend for any other follower outside of Dragonkin
Add Arcane Earcuff
Add Earcuff of Greater Glory

You now have
9 Charm Slots
9 Ioun Stone Slots
7 Bead Slots
4 Ring Slots (+2 Slots than we had prior to St. Wilton possibly existing)
+1 Flex Slot (There's a lot of Followers)

Without the 3rd Earslot you'd have to choose which ear expanders to use. Which means there would be 3 worlds that exist

---

World 1
7 Charm Slots
9 Ioun Stone Slots
7 Bead Slots
4 Ring Slots
+1 Flex Slot

---

World 2
9 Charm Slots
7 Ioun Stone Slots
7 Bead Slots
4 Ring Slots
+1 Flex Slot (This world gets value out of Dragonkin, so it could have 2 flex slots)

---

World 3
9 Charm Slots
9 Ioun Stone Slots
7 Bead Slots
2 Ring Slots
+1 Flex Slot

---

In summary because you do need to make a choice between those worlds, it is trivially easy to reproduce and often exceed the effects of any of the saints which I described in a table earlier. St. Wilton when compared to any of the other existing Saints is as powerful or more powerful. If a single choice for this effect is as good or better than the rest, then that choice is broken/over-powered.

I can say that confidently because all the saints are supposed to be on the same power level as each other. But if the power level of the versatile saint is equal to the rest, then they are too powerful. Versatility should come at a cost of efficiency. It should not be able to achieve the same effects of the specialized Saints.

A more balanced versatile option would be: Pick another Saint, gain half their bonus.
Other possible options for Wilton: +12 HP, +5AC

And no one has picked up on this. Typo St Gubb should be St Gub to properly reflect the passing of Gib Gub.

Grunnel Rules and will forever Rule

What about St. Wilton giving +1 to all hit, all damage, and healing? Gives a bonus to everything if you can't decide but less than if you focus on something.

There should be a reward for specializing - so if +5 melee damage is one power, a general option shouldn’t be more than +3 (for an example of why this is, go back and read the token dev for Ring of the Savant).

In a nut shell, that means if the Ear expander yields more than +3 damage of any type, it’s likely too good. We can look at the other categories (saves, retribution, etc), but that’s not really necessary if we can take the ear expander and get more than +3 damage, we know it’s too good.

For the moment, I’m going to reference the builds here:

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=571&id=258460#465385

Starting with Barbarian (
tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/922620ee-0fc4-4c33-8436-e426356490ad )

We can use the ear expander to add Earcuff of Glory to add the new legendary vampire melee ring , which yields +5 melee damage AND healing. Net win over the melee damage mark (note you can do this for all the melee builds in the thread).

Now, you might say “silly endgame, I’m going to drop orbits because SH 1”. I hear you, and that has been my plan with nuggets moving slotless. The thing is, an ear expander can still drop orbits and instead equip Earcuff of the Ravager, or Earcuff of the sage sprite and negate the reason to make either of those marks. You can also cascade slots. For example, because you can get an extra ear, you can add ravager so you can drop, say, DK gauntlets to pickup gladiator gloves. The swaps can be multi step and full gain.

TLDR; multiple mark options are displaced just by choosing the ear expander today. In another 2-3 years of token dev, I fully expect the ear expander to be the one that is better in every scenario.

edwin wrote: And no one has picked up on this. Typo St Gubb should be St Gub to properly reflect the passing of Gib Gub.

Grunnel Rules and will forever Rule

You beat me to it.

Officially requesting a St. Grunnel option.

I may be behind on some reading on changes to the mark but from this it sounds like when we make it we have to choose 1 of these Saints and the mark from the path fragments will forever be that type based off the saint choice? What happen to the mark having our player names on it or was that nixed a long time ago? I apologize if I’m behind on my understanding of what is coming but I have path 1 and 3 fragments, looking for 2 nd and was planning on getting the last this coming year but if it’s bound to 1 option after it’s created that may change what I do.

Tyraël The Just wrote: I may be behind on some reading on changes to the mark but from this it sounds like when we make it we have to choose 1 of these Saints and the mark from the path fragments will forever be that type based off the saint choice? What happen to the mark having our player names on it or was that nixed a long time ago? I apologize if I’m behind on my understanding of what is coming but I have path 1 and 3 fragments, looking for 2 nd and was planning on getting the last this coming year but if it’s bound to 1 option after it’s created that may change what I do.

My understanding of the process is you will send in the 4 path fragments along with you pick of Saint which will determine the power of the token. There will be an event at Ring Con to have this happen in game. It will still have the creator name on it, as long as it passes TD's approval. So if you pick St. Gubb and go with the name of "Deez Nuts" Jeff and Grunnel might veto the name.

Grizwald wrote:

Tyraël The Just wrote: I may be behind on some reading on changes to the mark but from this it sounds like when we make it we have to choose 1 of these Saints and the mark from the path fragments will forever be that type based off the saint choice? What happen to the mark having our player names on it or was that nixed a long time ago? I apologize if I’m behind on my understanding of what is coming but I have path 1 and 3 fragments, looking for 2 nd and was planning on getting the last this coming year but if it’s bound to 1 option after it’s created that may change what I do.

My understanding of the process is you will send in the 4 path fragments along with you pick of Saint which will determine the power of the token. There will be an event at Ring Con to have this happen in game. It will still have the creator name on it, as long as it passes TD's approval. So if you pick St. Gubb and go with the name of "Deez Nuts" Jeff and Grunnel might veto the name.

😂😂😂 thank you for that, although I find that name humorous, I doubt TDA would allow a name like that on a token ( ik it was a joke ) but I’m still really torn about having a mark that costs upwards of 4k + between just the 4 fragments having such a heavy restriction. I make my choice on my build now, but it could be rendered useless if I change characters or decide to do a different build. Not only that, but I wonder how Saints will be chosen if I can’t go to Ring Con. I really want to but I’ve missed the last near 3 years of events due to medical issues and family responsibilities. Just seems like a really big let down having to choose 1 and be locked in forever.. unless I hunt down other variants… which will require 7 other completed marks… or am I being unreasonable or not thinking about it correctly ?

Tyraël The Just wrote:

Grizwald wrote:

Tyraël The Just wrote: I may be behind on some reading on changes to the mark but from this it sounds like when we make it we have to choose 1 of these Saints and the mark from the path fragments will forever be that type based off the saint choice? What happen to the mark having our player names on it or was that nixed a long time ago? I apologize if I’m behind on my understanding of what is coming but I have path 1 and 3 fragments, looking for 2 nd and was planning on getting the last this coming year but if it’s bound to 1 option after it’s created that may change what I do.

My understanding of the process is you will send in the 4 path fragments along with you pick of Saint which will determine the power of the token. There will be an event at Ring Con to have this happen in game. It will still have the creator name on it, as long as it passes TD's approval. So if you pick St. Gubb and go with the name of "Deez Nuts" Jeff and Grunnel might veto the name.

😂😂😂 thank you for that, although I find that name humorous, I doubt TDA would allow a name like that on a token ( ik it was a joke ) but I’m still really torn about having a mark that costs upwards of 4k + between just the 4 fragments having such a heavy restriction. I make my choice on my build now, but it could be rendered useless if I change characters or decide to do a different build. Not only that, but I wonder how Saints will be chosen if I can’t go to Ring Con. I really want to but I’ve missed the last near 3 years of events due to medical issues and family responsibilities. Just seems like a really big let down having to choose 1 and be locked in forever.. unless I hunt down other variants… which will require 7 other completed marks… or am I being unreasonable or not thinking about it correctly ?

I did not make nearly as much of a monetary investment as you have but this is my perspective. Each mark is pretty broad in purpose, where each melee and ranged cover half the classes. Damage and hit will never be useless. And if you wanted something truly timeless getting +4 saves is always good.

The big path items are getting you a special ring con event too. The 8k special items aren't supposed to be world breaking in power, look at the eldest dragon Orb for reference. They're suppose to be cool and a thank you as I understand it.

You are correct, they aren’t meant to be world breaking. I would never ask for such. I made an eldest orb and although I was sad at the outcome I understand the why. With the mark, I’m not asking for world powers. I just don’t like that it locks that token into 1 thing forever when there 8 choices. Maybe I am coming across as greedy and ungrateful and if I am, I’m sorry. That’s not what I am trying to portray with my words. All I am trying to say is that with the investment, time, and others that went into it, it makes me sad that given 8 different powers, that we will only ever be able to choose 1 power that is associated with our named token. If I had the time and money I’d make 8 but that means I would need closet to a minimum of $32k to be able to utilize the marks potential.

You simply sound to be much more of a completionist/collector than I am. I look at this through the lens of game balance, in which a token that change between 8 different fairly powerful effect is much much much much more powerful than a token that can only do one of those effects. You say things I don't fully comprehend, like needing 8 different marks to "utilize the mark's potential" if it was one token that could change between them all you only could equip 1 of them anyways. With them being different tokens you could equip 2 of them if they were of different saints as their name would be different (at least until we have a ruling stating otherwise).

If your power is to be versatile it needs to be much more akin to the power level of the Eldest Dragon Orb, in which you get +2 to a given stat. If your power is specialized it can be the crazy high damage boost it is now. But again, I come from a game balance side of this. I understand you see this as missing out on something from having to choose, where I see it as the large patron collectors have the chance to make something great for themselves. It's like you've been crafting your own powerful magical artifact for years and it'll be something you specifically value.