TOPIC: FINAL Notes about 2019 Tokens

The problem I see with the new wands ruling (and I didn't really catch it until today) is that it really makes wands an all or nothing proposition.

With the new ruling, if I'm going to use a wand, I better intend to make my entire build around wands. If I want to be able to just use my wand every now and then, I'm wasting them.

Given that a large majority of wands had 5 punches, unless I'm using MoMM, doing double-wand every round, and getting in at least three rounds (6 total uses of the wand), I'm likely getting less out of my wands than 2017 and earlier. If I'm trying to spend any of my actions to do things other than use wands, I wind up using up wands much faster.

Fiddy wrote: Given that a large majority of wands had 5 punches, unless I'm using MoMM, doing double-wand every round, and getting in at least three rounds (6 total uses of the wand), I'm likely getting less out of my wands than 2017 and earlier. If I'm trying to spend any of my actions to do things other than use wands, I wind up using up wands much faster.

Common - 8 (not including 2019)
5 charges - 7 (4 of which are damage)
0 Charges -1 (2018 wand)

Uncommon - 9
5 charges - 8 (6 damage)
0 charges - 1

Rare -14
5 charges - 6 (3 damage)
4 charges - 3 (1 damge)
3 charges - 4 (4 damage)
0 charges - 1


Though you are correct the majority of wands have 5 charges. The majority of rare wands don't.

I do agree if you were using an uncommon or common wand you probably getting less uses out of it (using the assumption of 3 rounds). I will take that over time saved over punching 3 punches. I was in a group that the wizard was using a charge based wand every round and it slowed combat down SO much. So I don't know what you do.

isauteikisa wrote: "going back to them being consumable" is a bit imprecise, here. Wands were multi-use consumables pre-2018.

If we were playing under pre-2018 rules with the Ogre Mage fight this year, I burn one charge of a wand, I see wands aren't working, I fall back and don't waste any more of my consumable. Playing under 2019 rules, it's a complete waste of a token.

Agreed but that is a rare occurrence and the same thing would happen with a Scroll - it would be burnt and consumed.

Ed

MasterED wrote:

isauteikisa wrote: "going back to them being consumable" is a bit imprecise, here. Wands were multi-use consumables pre-2018.

If we were playing under pre-2018 rules with the Ogre Mage fight this year, I burn one charge of a wand, I see wands aren't working, I fall back and don't waste any more of my consumable. Playing under 2019 rules, it's a complete waste of a token.

Agreed but that is a rare occurrence and the same thing would happen with a Scroll - it would be burnt and consumed.

Ed

Unless you had a good Bard that did a Lore check and told you from the beginning that Magic didn't work.

jedibcg wrote: Unless you had a good Bard that did a Lore check and told you from the beginning that Magic didn't work.

Yeah, Hawk/Val is always busy so I get those Bards that Lore Check is code for hide.

Ed

jedibcg wrote:

Fiddy wrote: Given that a large majority of wands had 5 punches, unless I'm using MoMM, doing double-wand every round, and getting in at least three rounds (6 total uses of the wand), I'm likely getting less out of my wands than 2017 and earlier. If I'm trying to spend any of my actions to do things other than use wands, I wind up using up wands much faster.

Common - 8 (not including 2019)
5 charges - 7 (4 of which are damage)
0 Charges -1 (2018 wand)

Uncommon - 9
5 charges - 8 (6 damage)
0 charges - 1

Rare -14
5 charges - 6 (3 damage)
4 charges - 3 (1 damge)
3 charges - 4 (4 damage)
0 charges - 1


Though you are correct the majority of wands have 5 charges. The majority of rare wands don't.

I do agree if you were using an uncommon or common wand you probably getting less uses out of it (using the assumption of 3 rounds). I will take that over time saved over punching 3 punches. I was in a group that the wizard was using a charge based wand every round and it slowed combat down SO much. So I don't know what you do.

I don't have a great solution unfortunately.

The interesting thing is that the swing happens at the other extreme too, for Grind. I'm fairly sure the 3 round number goes up to more like 5 rounds per "room", so you're probably looking at more like 10 charges from a single wand in a MoMM build there.

Fiddy wrote: The interesting thing is that the swing happens at the other extreme too, for Grind. I'm fairly sure the 3 round number goes up to more like 5 rounds per "room", so you're probably looking at more like 10 charges from a single wand in a MoMM build there.

Until Incognito nerfs wands in Grind

Ed

MasterED wrote:

Fiddy wrote: The interesting thing is that the swing happens at the other extreme too, for Grind. I'm fairly sure the 3 round number goes up to more like 5 rounds per "room", so you're probably looking at more like 10 charges from a single wand in a MoMM build there.

Until Incognito nerfs wands in Grind

Ed

That's actually why I brought up the Grind example. I'm hoping to summon him, so he can come up with a suggestion for a better solution now instead of later. I get frustrated with his "creativity" at nerfing things that should work. *Grumble* chains that wrap you up so you get your arm bitten off, but somehow aren't considered a hindrance *grumble*

Fiddy wrote: *Grumble* chains that wrap you up so you get your arm bitten off, but somehow aren't considered a hindrance *grumble*

What, you can move - you have Free Movement. Just not your arms.

Ed

I am surprised that there isn't more reaction to losing more than 50% of a party's healing. This seams like a fairly major change.

there has been a lot of reations in the other draft. i think most understand or accept it at this point.

I'm slightly bummed that the +2 to ALL healing was dropped from lods. (Just noticed it now. )