TOPIC: Suspicious (?) eBay auction

Bob Chasan wrote: The one thing that makes me very happy and all of this is that as a group the people here on the forum really take care of each other. Although it’s not possible to stop every bad actor forumites do their best to protect other players from harm.

That is very true. Although, sometimes the pitchforks and torches get pulled out really quickly on the TD forums.

The Falcon wrote:

Harlax wrote:

The Falcon wrote: The game is growing
New people are starting to come in,
Pax South and West,
It’s a great thing,
But there will always but a bit of
Trash that comes with that new Party.

Do we have any evidence that this is a new person?

Sadly none, just the fact that everyone
Here are all good and decent People,
That would never do this.
So I’m guessing it’s a new kid.

It could also be someone that doesn't play at all.

Looking through completed auctions, the seller has sold 6 LoDS. How did he get so many?

I suddenly find myself doubting the authenticity of the one in the lot I bought. Plus, is the Greater Quicksilver Charm I got legit?

Kirk, Trent, Mike, Chad, Jeff, umm...other long time buyers/players: can I get someone to authenticate these?

Side note, still no reply from the seller.

Dave Autzen wrote: Looking through completed auctions, the seller has sold 6 LoDS. How did he get so many?

I suddenly find myself doubting the authenticity of the one in the lot I bought. Plus, is the Greater Quicksilver Charm I got legit?

Kirk, Trent, Mike, Chad, Jeff, umm...other long time buyers/players: can I get someone to authenticate these?

Side note, still no reply from the seller.

They're probably legit - although my fear is they might have been stolen.

Here's how to authenticate:

1. Tokens on gold backs with star indentations around the ring on the face, not circles like on C/UC/R.
2. On the back the token should have an embossed 2019.

If it has those two features the back at least is from a 2019 UR. No reason to fake LoDS when you could be faking ISGN if you are somehow re-facing 2019 UR backs.

Based on the fact that there were adventurer's guild badges in with this, whatever the source of the tokens is it's someone who spent at least 2k.

If not stolen, perhaps someone who didn't understand the errata to LoDS and the general impact of reprints on token prices and got a 2k order or more in 2019 with all LoDS hoping they would sell for the $200+ that LoDS was going for before the rerprint maybe? Easy to get 6 LoDS with a 2k order.

Never thought about ease of obtaining that many URs in one order. My income is not to the point yet where I can place that big of an order!

Thanks for the info, Matthew. I am pretty sure the 2019 is there so that alleviates my concern. But has anyone reported a large collection being stolen? I don’t recall anyone on the forums mentioning it.

I'm not sure there's any evidence to jump to the conclusion that these tokens are stolen. As Matthew said, it would be pretty easy to place a $2K order to get the 2019 URs he/she is selling. For the older tokens, he could either be a long time player who accumulated them, or maybe he bought them from one or more other people.

I'm not surprised someone would order a number of LoDS, it was going for a substantial amount prior to the nerfing - and even now I expect it to eventually climb in value, since it is still (in my opinion) a must-have token for Clerics and pretty nice for Druids. It's better for healing than most UR Focus tokens, as it gives +2 healing and the ability to split the total healing among two targets.

I'll be interested to see what the response is to the missing LoDS and Monster Bits. Maybe it was just a mix-up of some sort and he'll send the missing tokens (it seems unlikely, but possible). Hopefully you don't have to go through eBay to get resolution on this.

I am still interested in what positive surprises you got if you're willing to share that information - were there any high value tokens that weren't in the photos?

Mike Steele wrote: I'm not sure there's any evidence to jump to the conclusion that these tokens are stolen.

Here’s my thought process on this. First off, here are the facts:

1. Seller is in possession of mix of tokens that include:
multiples of LoDS
2020 full time volunteer token
Monster bits
Enhanced transmute
2k reward token
Unredeemed treasure chips
A mix of many years of tokens, and lots of common “gear” tokens.

2. Seller is engaged in shady behavior of running “pig in a poke” auction, and now apparently delivering different tokens than pictured. One of the differences appears to be the omission of a ~100 token.

3. Seller has sold around 6 other LoDS.

4. No one on forums is able/willing to identify seller.

How do we explain these facts?

Here is a nonexhaustive list of scenarios:

1. Seller legitimately acquired the tokens by making large purchases and acting as a full time vol, and running the dungeon.

Analysis: entirely plausible.

2. Seller legitimately acquired these tokens in the secondary market from others who legitimately acquired them, and is now selling them.

Analysis: Unlikely - someone who is buying on the secondary market is unlikely to have acquired this particular mix of tokens. Why would someone buy the useless AG tokens, or buy unredeemed treasure chips along with C/Ur/R and monster bits? Unless they bought someone’s whole collection I just don’t see this as likely.

3. Seller stole a players whole collection and is now selling it.

Analysis: entirely plausible - this looks like a mix of tokens that would make up a whole collection.

I’m not concluding they are stolen - but I think it’s definitely a live option that explains all the facts.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I'm not sure there's any evidence to jump to the conclusion that these tokens are stolen.

Here’s my thought process on this. First off, here are the facts:

1. Seller is in possession of mix of tokens that include:
multiples of LoDS
2020 full time volunteer token
Monster bits
Enhanced transmute
2k reward token
Unredeemed treasure chips
A mix of many years of tokens, and lots of common “gear” tokens.

2. Seller is engaged in shady behavior of running “pig in a poke” auction, and now apparently delivering different tokens than pictured. One of the differences appears to be the omission of a ~100 token.

3. Seller has sold around 6 other LoDS.

4. No one on forums is able/willing to identify seller.

How do we explain these facts?

Here is a nonexhaustive list of scenarios:

1. Seller legitimately acquired the tokens by making large purchases and acting as a full time vol, and running the dungeon.

Analysis: entirely plausible.

2. Seller legitimately acquired these tokens in the secondary market from others who legitimately acquired them, and is now selling them.

Analysis: Unlikely - someone who is buying on the secondary market is unlikely to have acquired this particular mix of tokens. Why would someone buy the useless AG tokens, or buy unredeemed treasure chips along with C/Ur/R and monster bits? Unless they bought someone’s whole collection I just don’t see this as likely.

3. Seller stole a players whole collection and is now selling it.

Analysis: entirely plausible - this looks like a mix of tokens that would make up a whole collection.

I’m not concluding they are stolen - but I think it’s definitely a live option that explains all the facts.

I am just giving him time to respond before putting his name here. I am hoping he delivers the missing goods or makes it right in some fashion.

Honestly, part of the surprises I found, I had missed in the pictures. Specifically the volunteer Amulet and the Relic Fragment. There might have been others that I cannot recall right now.

A hard thing to deal with is waiting to add this purchase to my pending transmute order!

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I'm not sure there's any evidence to jump to the conclusion that these tokens are stolen.

Here’s my thought process on this. First off, here are the facts:

1. Seller is in possession of mix of tokens that include:
multiples of LoDS
2020 full time volunteer token
Monster bits
Enhanced transmute
2k reward token
Unredeemed treasure chips
A mix of many years of tokens, and lots of common “gear” tokens.

2. Seller is engaged in shady behavior of running “pig in a poke” auction, and now apparently delivering different tokens than pictured. One of the differences appears to be the omission of a ~100 token.

3. Seller has sold around 6 other LoDS.

4. No one on forums is able/willing to identify seller.

How do we explain these facts?

Here is a nonexhaustive list of scenarios:

1. Seller legitimately acquired the tokens by making large purchases and acting as a full time vol, and running the dungeon.

Analysis: entirely plausible.

2. Seller legitimately acquired these tokens in the secondary market from others who legitimately acquired them, and is now selling them.

Analysis: Unlikely - someone who is buying on the secondary market is unlikely to have acquired this particular mix of tokens. Why would someone buy the useless AG tokens, or buy unredeemed treasure chips along with C/Ur/R and monster bits? Unless they bought someone’s whole collection I just don’t see this as likely.

3. Seller stole a players whole collection and is now selling it.

Analysis: entirely plausible - this looks like a mix of tokens that would make up a whole collection.

I’m not concluding they are stolen - but I think it’s definitely a live option that explains all the facts.

If they didn't acquire the tokens themselves, it's certainly plausible that they might have bought out someone's token collection (or maybe more than one person's collection). I just don't like jumping to the worst possibility without any evidence.

Mike Steele wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I'm not sure there's any evidence to jump to the conclusion that these tokens are stolen.

Here’s my thought process on this. First off, here are the facts:

1. Seller is in possession of mix of tokens that include:
multiples of LoDS
2020 full time volunteer token
Monster bits
Enhanced transmute
2k reward token
Unredeemed treasure chips
A mix of many years of tokens, and lots of common “gear” tokens.

2. Seller is engaged in shady behavior of running “pig in a poke” auction, and now apparently delivering different tokens than pictured. One of the differences appears to be the omission of a ~100 token.

3. Seller has sold around 6 other LoDS.

4. No one on forums is able/willing to identify seller.

How do we explain these facts?

Here is a nonexhaustive list of scenarios:

1. Seller legitimately acquired the tokens by making large purchases and acting as a full time vol, and running the dungeon.

Analysis: entirely plausible.

2. Seller legitimately acquired these tokens in the secondary market from others who legitimately acquired them, and is now selling them.

Analysis: Unlikely - someone who is buying on the secondary market is unlikely to have acquired this particular mix of tokens. Why would someone buy the useless AG tokens, or buy unredeemed treasure chips along with C/Ur/R and monster bits? Unless they bought someone’s whole collection I just don’t see this as likely.

3. Seller stole a players whole collection and is now selling it.

Analysis: entirely plausible - this looks like a mix of tokens that would make up a whole collection.

I’m not concluding they are stolen - but I think it’s definitely a live option that explains all the facts.

If they didn't acquire the tokens themselves, it's certainly plausible that they might have bought out someone's token collection (or maybe more than one person's collection). I just don't like jumping to the worst possibility without any evidence.

Neither do I, which is why I've stated several times that I'm "concerned" or "worried" that it might be stolen, and that I haven't concluded they are stolen.

Glad we agree.

No one has posted that they are missing Tokens or that they believe they have had tokens stolen. Granted, not every collector of tokens is on the forums.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I'm not sure there's any evidence to jump to the conclusion that these tokens are stolen.

Here’s my thought process on this. First off, here are the facts:

1. Seller is in possession of mix of tokens that include:
multiples of LoDS
2020 full time volunteer token
Monster bits
Enhanced transmute
2k reward token
Unredeemed treasure chips
A mix of many years of tokens, and lots of common “gear” tokens.

2. Seller is engaged in shady behavior of running “pig in a poke” auction, and now apparently delivering different tokens than pictured. One of the differences appears to be the omission of a ~100 token.

3. Seller has sold around 6 other LoDS.

4. No one on forums is able/willing to identify seller.

How do we explain these facts?

Here is a nonexhaustive list of scenarios:

1. Seller legitimately acquired the tokens by making large purchases and acting as a full time vol, and running the dungeon.

Analysis: entirely plausible.

2. Seller legitimately acquired these tokens in the secondary market from others who legitimately acquired them, and is now selling them.

Analysis: Unlikely - someone who is buying on the secondary market is unlikely to have acquired this particular mix of tokens. Why would someone buy the useless AG tokens, or buy unredeemed treasure chips along with C/Ur/R and monster bits? Unless they bought someone’s whole collection I just don’t see this as likely.

3. Seller stole a players whole collection and is now selling it.

Analysis: entirely plausible - this looks like a mix of tokens that would make up a whole collection.

I’m not concluding they are stolen - but I think it’s definitely a live option that explains all the facts.

If they didn't acquire the tokens themselves, it's certainly plausible that they might have bought out someone's token collection (or maybe more than one person's collection). I just don't like jumping to the worst possibility without any evidence.

Neither do I, which is why I've stated several times that I'm "concerned" or "worried" that it might be stolen, and that I haven't concluded they are stolen.

Glad we agree.

Well, we mostly agree, I'm not really concerned that they might be stolen since there's no evidence indicating that so far.

I do share a concern that the seller might be not be honest, since several tokens pictured weren't included in the shipment. Hopefully the seller will resolve the issue soon. It's hard to believe the seller wouldn't have realized they would be called out on some of the top tokens in the picture not being included in the shipment, unless they intend to say they were included and make it a "he said, she said" issue. I have had a pretty bad eBay experience (from a buyer), so I don't rule anything out.