TOPIC: It's time to eliminate the 3rd level player bonus

Expanding on David suggest to keep it dice based...

0. Coach arrives.
1. Have we all agreed amicably on class selections? Great! I'll start recording.
2. No? Remember, you'll need to work together in the dungeon in order to succeed. Okay, here I am going to roll this D20 and am going to start count on my left clockwise until I get the number I rolled. That person can pick their class and then they pass the class cards clockwise to the next person? NO TRADING once we resort to a dice roll. Sure you don't want to work it out?

But again I am fine with the rules as is - please post them in the coach's room and clarify roll offs.

Ed

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: after all this is just a game

Some people get in to an argument playing solitaire.

Ed

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Incognito wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: you want to make sure you get a certain class...buy out the whole run. if you cant buy the whole run, then find another or a different group.

Sometimes that's not good enough. I have had cases where I buy out a run and hand out the tickets (which is even more complicated now with GenCon's electronic ticketing system) but then one of the members of the run sells/gives away their slot to someone else.

I would never give a ticket to either of those players ever again. That's not really ok to me.

Incognito wrote:

MasterED wrote: What I do see is people not know and following the existing rules. They need to posted so people who don't know can easily reference them.

It should be clarified on the existing rules how roll off occur (e.g. can I request a roll off to Bard, then lose, then request Barbarian and win, then that loser start the process over with all the other classes - you could get in to an infinite loop).

Currently the only rules listed in the 2019 Coach's Guide are as follows:
If they’re still undecided, help them to make a selection. Players who are 3rd-level or higher (take their word for it… there’s no time to look it up) may select their class before 1st or 2nd-level players. E.g., if a 3rd-level player and a 2nd-level player want to play the same class, the 3rd-level player “wins”. However, this does not mean highest level chooses first. If the dilemma can’t be resolved by player level, suggest a similar class, roll a die, or rock/paper/scissors for it.
Don’t let them waste time arguing.

If you can't solve the puzzle like adults then you are allowed 1 and only 1 roll off. If you lose the roll off you must select from the remaining classes.

Current rules do NOT state that losing the roll off means you have to choose from the leftover classes that no one else wants.

That would be a change / addendum / clarification of the existing rules.

And one we should probably make. If people can't work it out, there should be some risk associated.

I like this, “some risk associated”

Again this is a problem that is very rarely ever seen however for the obtuse a cascading effect could really be incredibly detrimental to the amount of time that we have in the coaching room. If the above third level player is in a room with other 3rd and above players and continues to lose die roll then argue with another player trying to take that class then continue going down a line of 7,8, or nine people is going to eat up more than the 24 minutes in the coaching room.

1. Here’s how my mom would have handled it: “If you two can’t agree on who gets to play Rogue in the next 30 seconds, then no one gets it. You can both pick something else.”

2. If you have a smart phone, you have dice. “Hey Siri, roll a D20”

Brad Mortensen wrote: 1. Here’s how my mom would have handled it: “If you two can’t agree on who gets to play Rogue in the next 30 seconds, then no one gets it. You can both pick something else.”

Coach walks in and hears two players wants to play rogue and tears the card in half and give half to each player. You each get to play half a rogue....a guess a rogue halfing would be really appropriate joke here, but I am above making that joke....lol.

I find that preplanned runs also have the problem of who is playing what, not because people can't agree but because people like me keep waiting for someone else to make a decision as I don't care that much.

Then, while I have 50 or so builds on the app, trying to figure out the right build for difficulty at the right time still takes me time, more so when I'm doing the builds for three people and don't actually own 3x every token in existence.

Not terribly on topic, but time can be wasted with good intentions, too.

MasterED wrote: Expanding on David suggest to keep it dice based...

0. Coach arrives.
1. Have we all agreed amicably on class selections? Great! I'll start recording.
2. No? Remember, you'll need to work together in the dungeon in order to succeed. Okay, here I am going to roll this D20 and am going to start count on my left clockwise until I get the number I rolled. That person can pick their class and then they pass the class cards clockwise to the next person? NO TRADING once we resort to a dice roll. Sure you don't want to work it out?

But again I am fine with the rules as is - please post them in the coach's room and clarify roll offs.

Ed

No, clockwise (or counter-clockwise) doesn't work. It's unfair because of the seating position of the players. I see this a lot with board games where you have clockwise situations.

If you and I both want to play the same class, then I just make sure I sit to your right (just in front of you in the clockwise order). So that gives me a 90% chance of getting me the class and you only get 10%. Even something as innocuous as having my friends all sit in front of me so that if any of them are rolled, then essentially it's me getting the contested class.

Brad Mortensen wrote: 1. Here’s how my mom would have handled it: “If you two can’t agree on who gets to play Rogue in the next 30 seconds, then no one gets it. You can both pick something else.”

I do like this option.Though it might encourage players to play chicken. Plus, if this happens with multiple classes (and multiple sets of people) it could get complicated....

Incognito wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: 1. Here’s how my mom would have handled it: “If you two can’t agree on who gets to play Rogue in the next 30 seconds, then no one gets it. You can both pick something else.”

I do like this option.Though it might encourage players to play chicken. Plus, if this happens with multiple classes (and multiple sets of people) it could get complicated....

This doesn’t work when three groups play chicken and you are out of classes.

JACKOFTRADZE wrote:

LOL agreed. I kinda wish the forum had polling options.

MasterED wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: 1. Here’s how my mom would have handled it: “If you two can’t agree on who gets to play Rogue in the next 30 seconds, then no one gets it. You can both pick something else.”

I do like this option.Though it might encourage players to play chicken. Plus, if this happens with multiple classes (and multiple sets of people) it could get complicated....

This doesn’t work when three groups play chicken and you are out of classes.

Here is the solution. We create a special new 0th-level class, like the Torchbearer or something. Any number of players can be Torchbearers. If you aren't able to agree on a class than both of you are humble Torchbearers!!!

The more I read on this topic the more I feel we should just leave everything as is, for all its flaws it’s at least already in place.