TOPIC: New Official Ghosting Rule

I think this ghosting rule is fine.


As for groups that plan on ghosting...
I typically try and buy full runs but on rare occasion I only get 8 or 9. In the event I only get 8 an plan to ghost some of those I talk to the other 2 real players and assure them we'll be ok.
The one and only time that has happened to me they loved the smaller group size and thanked me for it.


As others have said what happens if 1 player buys 4 ticket and 1 buys 6. So 2 real players but all 10 tickets sold, how do they determine where the 5 ghosts get split. I would assume they roll for the 5th and each get 2 so its as even as possible, but could potentially cause a dispute. I highly doubt this would ever happen. As stated above I think most that ghost control the entire run.

Val, I don’t think you’re a sociopath. Sounds like this happened under the old ghost rules.

valetutto wrote: I think this ghosting rule is fine.
...how do they determine where the 5 ghosts get split...

(Here comes math) the person who gets three ghosts should pay for 8*X*3/5, or 4.8X (where X equals ticket price.) vs 5X for the three ghosts. That’s only a $1.56 difference at GC, less at other cons, so it’s probably close enough. Maybe four-ticket-guy tosses an extra UC or two at six-ticket-guy.

Unexpectedly having to pay 60% more for your ghost tickets than you thought you would is a great incentive to work it all out ahead of time.

But ultimately I think they have to sort it out themselves, perhaps hand crossbows at dawn.

jedibcg wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Raven wrote: I really appreciate you taking the time to clarify this, Jeff.

I'm also glad that ghosting could be extended to other Cons, and that the rules are the same across the board. It's a lot easier to remember (and explain) one set of rules, and will go a long ways towards TD's goal of Consistency.

- Raven


BTW, I don't know if anyone besides me has run the math... (I suspect it's the kind of thing which Brad Mortensen might have done) but the 5 ghost rule is (strictly speaking) "better" for people who like treasure, than having unlimited ghosts but capped at 10 treasure chips.

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ] [ Click to hide ]

Unlimited Ghosts / Capped Treasure
1 Player (L6, with full complement of TE's) = 19 TCs
9 Ghosts = 90 TC's
---
109 Treasure Chips

vs.

5 Ghosts Max / No Treasure Cap
1 Player (L6, with full complement of TE's) = 19 TCs
5 Ghosts (with full complement of TE's) = 95 TCs
---
115 Treasure Chips


...and it's cheaper to buy 5 extra tickets than 9.

So, depending on how many people decide to go this route, we may be exacerbating the problems which the token market is having. I'm interested in seeing how things play out in the long run.

True would be cheaper with 5 ghosts. but that also means you need 4 other people to farm with you. Which one would assume you are spiliting treasure with so investment is less but treasure per person is less as well. if you are not spilitling with them and just buying 6 tickets to all your runs you might run into the issue of running into somone else that bought 4 tickets intending to ghost. Which I would find hilarious as the two of you would only get 5 ghost between you for your greediness...lol. Good luck working that out greedy people. It also assumes the 6 ticket purchaser is equipping the 4 others with Charms of Good Fortune or CoA to maximise their tickets or again they know the other folks and probably are spiliting with them (if their intent is to farm and not just run 5 man).

Hey, i was just typing that big post on this kind of thing...but raven was actually comparing 2 scenarios where a person buys all 10 tickets; one using the treasure cap of 10, and the other where only 5 ghosts get treasure and the last 4 tickets get nothing.

Then it still wouldn't work exactly like that for Raven's scenario as I read it. Buying all 10 and the other 4 getting nothing means they don't get Charms of Avarice or Charms of Good Fortune. You cannot ghost them so you cannot equip them (again how I read it). that means you only have 6 characters getting TE boost meaning that it is only it is 1 less chip for each of them. Making the number 109 as well.

I don't think that is what she means though because she mentions that buying 5 extra tickets being cheaper than 9. Which is of course true but doesn't handle how you would get max treasure for you and your 5 ghost.

Jeff Martin wrote: 7. Even though the maximum number of Ghost characters on a run is nine, no more than five Ghost characters may receive any TREASURE CHIP bonus. All Ghost characters can equip TEs if they wish, but only five Ghost characters will receive any TREASURE CHIPS.

And even if you have to buy all 10 tickets, 5 ghosts with full treasure is still more than 9 ghosts capped at 10.

Brad Mortensen wrote: Personally, I think that buying tickets specifically to ghost, without prearranging it with the rest of the party, is a total jerk move. I suppose there has to be a rule about, but it’s sad that we do.

Scenario: someone buys six tickets to ghost five, and surprises the player(s) with other four tickets in the coaching room.

I don’t know how you prevent such sociopathic behavior, beyond public shame and ridicule. Maybe we grant a Director the authority to deny any and all treasure to the ghosts in cases where someone has clearly broken Wheaton’s Law.

I think it should be the other way around; the rule is that you cannot ghost a ticket unless the whole group pre-arranged to do so. And allow an AC to make exceptions for very special cases.

Sorry bad math

$15 difference, not $1.50

This is my personal opinion.
I think if one buys less than all of the tickets for a run with the intent of ghosting some of those slots, one should at least be prepared for disappointment. If the folks who own the tickets you don't control don't want to run with ghosts, they ought not be forced to. I'm 100% fine with asking or convincing them to allow ghosts, but in the end, I don't think it's okay to force it on them.

I think TD ought to adopt a unanimous vote policy on ghosting, similar to how a unanimous vote is required to play on something other than Normal difficulty.

Druegar wrote: This is my personal opinion.
I think if one buys less than all of the tickets for a run with the intent of ghosting some of those slots, one should at least be prepared for disappointment. If the folks who own the tickets you don't control don't want to run with ghosts, they ought not be forced to. I'm 100% fine with asking or convincing them to allow ghosts, but in the end, I don't think it's okay to force it on them.

I think TD ought to adopt a unanimous vote policy on ghosting, similar to how a unanimous vote is required to play on something other than Normal difficulty.

Not sure how we police that.

Here we are in the choaching room. Players 1- 9 are in there starting to sort our classes. Player 9 says, my friend hasn't shown up yet. I'm going back to check n to see if he has made it. 5 minutes later he comes back and says "he's a no show, I'm just going to ghost it." So did his friend no show? Was he planning it all along? The ticket is turned in. Can it be unturned in? Do we call for someone from the wait list and to hell with the guy with the extra ticket? Does he get no Treasure for the ticket he turned in? Do we let him get the treasure but add the wait list player to bring the group up to strength? What if there are no wait list players? What if we are at GHC and two people bought a ticket in preregistration but player 3 buys 6 just a few minutes before the run? There wasn't going to be a full run anyway.

I think that would be a hard rule to enforce. Or even to figure out how to enforce.

kurtreznor wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: 7. Even though the maximum number of Ghost characters on a run is nine, no more than five Ghost characters may receive any TREASURE CHIP bonus. All Ghost characters can equip TEs if they wish, but only five Ghost characters will receive any TREASURE CHIPS.

And even if you have to buy all 10 tickets, 5 ghosts with full treasure is still more than 9 ghosts capped at 10.

Good catch I missed that. That still is not what Raven originally quoted as she mentioned buying only 5 extra tickets. But it is still valid.

jedibcg wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: 7. Even though the maximum number of Ghost characters on a run is nine, no more than five Ghost characters may receive any TREASURE CHIP bonus. All Ghost characters can equip TEs if they wish, but only five Ghost characters will receive any TREASURE CHIPS.

And even if you have to buy all 10 tickets, 5 ghosts with full treasure is still more than 9 ghosts capped at 10.

Good catch I missed that. That still is not what Raven originally quoted as she mentioned buying only 5 extra tickets. But it is still valid.

It feels like the ghost rule has been modified every year since it was created. I’m sure no matter what is decided for this year, it’ll change again next year.

Druegar wrote: This is my personal opinion.
I think if one buys less than all of the tickets for a run with the intent of ghosting some of those slots, one should at least be prepared for disappointment. If the folks who own the tickets you don't control don't want to run with ghosts, they ought not be forced to. I'm 100% fine with asking or convincing them to allow ghosts, but in the end, I don't think it's okay to force it on them.

I think TD ought to adopt a unanimous vote policy on ghosting, similar to how a unanimous vote is required to play on something other than Normal difficulty.

hmmm that sounds familar and not a bad idea.

Druegar wrote: unanimous vote policy on ghosting, similar to how a unanimous vote is required to play on something other than Normal difficulty.

jedibcg wrote: hmmm that sounds familar and not a bad idea.

If I plagiarized your idea, I assure you it was not intentional. This is hell-week for me at work and my brain not good. (not gooder than usual)

Harlax wrote: Not sure how we police that.

Hmm, good point.

Tell jedibcg his idea sucks.

kurtreznor wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Personally, I think that buying tickets specifically to ghost, without prearranging it with the rest of the party, is a total jerk move. I suppose there has to be a rule about, but it’s sad that we do.

Scenario: someone buys six tickets to ghost five, and surprises the player(s) with other four tickets in the coaching room.

I don’t know how you prevent such sociopathic behavior, beyond public shame and ridicule. Maybe we grant a Director the authority to deny any and all treasure to the ghosts in cases where someone has clearly broken Wheaton’s Law.

I think it should be the other way around; the rule is that you cannot ghost a ticket unless the whole group pre-arranged to do so. And allow an AC to make exceptions for very special cases.

I totally agree with that approach. It would be terrible for four people to show up to play, and find out that they will only have five people in their group because the other person is ghosting five players. I don't think anyone should ever show up for a run and have to go with less than 10 players because someone is ghosting, unless it's prearranged with all the players.

Maybe limit it to groups where one person bought all 10 tickets?