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TOPIC: Skull Con and Patron Side Event in June!

Skull Con and Patron Side Event in June! 6 months 1 week ago #25

Larry Anthony wrote:

Braxton wrote: I feel like this means no TD at origins though :(


wow, that would be disappointing. I hoped the skull event would be at origins.

Hopefully some TD will be at origins. maybe Jeff will talk about that Saturday night?


I have no problem with TD (and quite a few other big name organizations) choosing to skip them for a while. There is good reason why much of the gaming community is unhappy with them right now. After going for several years, I doubt I'll be going back there myself unless GAMA/Origins starts making changes. I switched Origins for Gamehole Con this year and definitely appreciated GHC quite a bit more.

Fred
What do we want? Evidence based science! When do we want it? After peer review!

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Skull Con and Patron Side Event in June! 6 months 1 week ago #26

I agree a second event is a big plus because of no attendance at origins. weird magic/F. feast or any thing else you may think off, would be a big incentive. What if we have a skull and no Patron code?

thank you for the opportunity.

Larry
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Skull Con and Patron Side Event in June! 6 months 1 week ago #27

Larry Anthony wrote: I agree a second event is a big plus because of no attendance at origins. weird magic/F. feast or any thing else you may think off, would be a big incentive. What if we have a skull and no Patron code?

thank you for the opportunity.

Larry


The reality is both Patron Codes and being added to a Skull list isn't that hard. Patron codes are for sale and, I suspect, the equivalent to Skull codes will also be for sale (although for skulls, the owner of the skulls will need to add the names in the google registration sheet of everyone they are covering and bring the skulls - not a big deal since virtually everyone who has more than 1 was probably planning to bring several if they have more than 1.)

Fred
What do we want? Evidence based science! When do we want it? After peer review!

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Skull Con and Patron Side Event in June! 6 months 1 week ago #28

Fred K wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Yep, basically in a normal year the only thing I need is a badge for the convention and the patron pin/code.

This year if I don't own a skull I can't attend the patron event?

That seems really shitty to people who don't own a skull but might buy enough tokens to be a patron.

Is there something available for patrons who DON'T own a skull or are they just out of luck for 2022?


I guess I could just cancel the Patron event at Skull Con, but I was really looking forward to hanging out with Patrons after a few years of not seeing anyone. It is hard for me to get away from home these days, and I didn't get to go to GHC.

Okay...since I don't want to bum people out, and I want everyone to be happy...

Last proclamation:

We will ALSO host an exclusive Virtual event for Patrons in October of 2022 open to ALL 2022 Patrons -- even those who attend Skull Con. I will update the appropriate pages.


Jeff - I would encourage you to have the Patron event in person at Skullcon. The negative comments were VASTLY outnumbered by positive ones for combining the events. Arcanist doesn't speak for everyone regardless of his volume of posts. Virtual for Patron is good but in person is vastly better. Having 2 different adventures makes the trip more worthwhile for the rest of us who planned to attend. It sounds like placating a tiny number of very loud people to dampen what is available to the vast majority.

Before making changes, I recommend TD quantifies the number of people actually impacted who were really willing to spend the money to go and commit to that now. My guess is the total is less than 10 people would be negatively impacted and I'm 100% certain other skull holders can help them out (between myself and half a dozen other people - we have dozens of extra skull codes we can help with.) On the other side, moving the Patron event negatively impacts an order of magnitude more people who are planning to attend.

Fred


Excuse me?

Kindly take your attitude elsewhere Fred.

I NEVER suggested removing the patron event at Skull Con, I mentioned that there is a non zero number of people who do not own a skull but will have Patron codes and it would be a good idea to have something for Patrons who don't also own skulls for the 2022 year.

Maybe before you attack me you might take a moment to verify you know what I'm actually saying.
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Skull Con and Patron Side Event in June! 6 months 1 week ago #29

Jeff Martin wrote: Last proclamation:

We will ALSO host an exclusive Virtual event for Patrons in October of 2022 open to ALL 2022 Patrons -- even those who attend Skull Con. I will update the appropriate pages.


Seems to say we'll still get the patron run in person at Skull Con and a virtual event. That seems like a very nice compromise to keep everyone happy. This definitely increases the patron codes my group will want now.
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Skull Con and Patron Side Event in June! 6 months 1 week ago #30

I'm neither patron nor skull holder currently for full disclosure. However it seems especially odd that since world isn't back to full normal that having a virtual option would be a great thing and peace of mind for folks who otherwise won't or can't make it to Carbondale for whatever reason. Especially since this isn't part of an otherwise existing con that many of the folks affected would otherwise reasonably be attending already (ie Gen Con, Origins, GHC).

I loved and did attend TDC years ago as a non patron and have fond memories of hanging out with folks, playing games and just celebrating. I was hoping this would be similar with a general hey welcome players and patrons have their special thing but otherwise everyone had stuff to do and good company to enjoy.

I like to think TD is a different game in a lot of good ways compared to it was when Teeth started coming out, it's generally believed and seen to have expanded cons along with expanded player base. New players, means or meant new buyers including new big buyers. I don't see it as out of realm of possibility that there are new patron level buyers in recent years who don't have a skull.

Patrons have never needed to have a token or any other requirement other than just being physically able to make the event every year to enjoy the perk (as well as being a current year patron obviously). Doing it different this year just seems odd but again i'm not a patron/skull holder. Just a fellow longtime fan of the game who tries to pay attention.
We're all the kind of people who enjoy the game on a "meta" level. We like talking about the game year-round. We buy tokens. We enjoy crafting. We get together during the off-season if we can. We are a very skewed demographic that way. -Raven

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Skull Con and Patron Side Event in June! 6 months 1 week ago #31

As for the patron event, since TD isn’t going to be at origins I support doing the event at Skull Con. I think maybe send out the patron token with the Virtual event that way no one misses out on that reward, that seems reasonably fair to me.
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Skull Con and Patron Side Event in June! 6 months 1 week ago #32

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Fred K wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Yep, basically in a normal year the only thing I need is a badge for the convention and the patron pin/code.

This year if I don't own a skull I can't attend the patron event?

That seems really shitty to people who don't own a skull but might buy enough tokens to be a patron.

Is there something available for patrons who DON'T own a skull or are they just out of luck for 2022?


I guess I could just cancel the Patron event at Skull Con, but I was really looking forward to hanging out with Patrons after a few years of not seeing anyone. It is hard for me to get away from home these days, and I didn't get to go to GHC.

Okay...since I don't want to bum people out, and I want everyone to be happy...

Last proclamation:

We will ALSO host an exclusive Virtual event for Patrons in October of 2022 open to ALL 2022 Patrons -- even those who attend Skull Con. I will update the appropriate pages.


Jeff - I would encourage you to have the Patron event in person at Skullcon. The negative comments were VASTLY outnumbered by positive ones for combining the events. Arcanist doesn't speak for everyone regardless of his volume of posts. Virtual for Patron is good but in person is vastly better. Having 2 different adventures makes the trip more worthwhile for the rest of us who planned to attend. It sounds like placating a tiny number of very loud people to dampen what is available to the vast majority.

Before making changes, I recommend TD quantifies the number of people actually impacted who were really willing to spend the money to go and commit to that now. My guess is the total is less than 10 people would be negatively impacted and I'm 100% certain other skull holders can help them out (between myself and half a dozen other people - we have dozens of extra skull codes we can help with.) On the other side, moving the Patron event negatively impacts an order of magnitude more people who are planning to attend.

Fred


Excuse me?

Kindly take your attitude elsewhere Fred.

I NEVER suggested removing the patron event at Skull Con, I mentioned that there is a non zero number of people who do not own a skull but will have Patron codes and it would be a good idea to have something for Patrons who don't also own skulls for the 2022 year.

Maybe before you attack me you might take a moment to verify you know what I'm actually saying.


I was replying based on your post - telling Jeff (in your words) "it seems rather shitty to tell all 2022 patrons they don't get anything because they don't also own a skull.." was quite rude. A better path is to find a way to make this possible for both Patrons and Skull holders. A fairly reasonable solution can be presented without the run being moved from Skullcon.

Historically (pre VTD), there was a finite number of Patron run slots (I think Origins 2019 was 28 or 32.) The expectation was never an unlimited number of people could do the run. Until 2020, the tokens given were cool as a collector but you wouldn't ever equip them in a NM+ build (none higher than rares.) This year, we know the token is the Ghost Accelerator (from QTR) so Patron holders would still get that, at minimum. It's pretty reasonable to go back to what the pre-Covid standard was of a finite number of slots for runs. I'm 100% certain that enough skull holders can provide codes for patrons without skulls who are lucky enough to get into one of those runs. Just between myself and a few others I know, at least 20 extra codes are available (I can provide 2-3 extras myself and my friends won't be using.) Not everyone who is a patron or has the code can make the trip in June to Illinois (just as not every Patron went to Origins.) We can absolutely run this as Jeff originally planned. Based on the schedule (assuming runs aren't concurrent and there is a break between runs) - there are likely a max of 10 patron runs - more likely 5 or 6. Depending on the number of people allowed (some patron runs at Origins had 16 players), it is well less than 100 total people - more likely 60-80. The hardcore fans tend to have skulls (probably 75%+ of them) meaning only 20 skulls extra might be needed, at the most.

Fred
What do we want? Evidence based science! When do we want it? After peer review!

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Skull Con and Patron Side Event in June! 6 months 1 week ago #33

Fred K wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Fred K wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Yep, basically in a normal year the only thing I need is a badge for the convention and the patron pin/code.

This year if I don't own a skull I can't attend the patron event?

That seems really shitty to people who don't own a skull but might buy enough tokens to be a patron.

Is there something available for patrons who DON'T own a skull or are they just out of luck for 2022?


I guess I could just cancel the Patron event at Skull Con, but I was really looking forward to hanging out with Patrons after a few years of not seeing anyone. It is hard for me to get away from home these days, and I didn't get to go to GHC.

Okay...since I don't want to bum people out, and I want everyone to be happy...

Last proclamation:

We will ALSO host an exclusive Virtual event for Patrons in October of 2022 open to ALL 2022 Patrons -- even those who attend Skull Con. I will update the appropriate pages.


Jeff - I would encourage you to have the Patron event in person at Skullcon. The negative comments were VASTLY outnumbered by positive ones for combining the events. Arcanist doesn't speak for everyone regardless of his volume of posts. Virtual for Patron is good but in person is vastly better. Having 2 different adventures makes the trip more worthwhile for the rest of us who planned to attend. It sounds like placating a tiny number of very loud people to dampen what is available to the vast majority.

Before making changes, I recommend TD quantifies the number of people actually impacted who were really willing to spend the money to go and commit to that now. My guess is the total is less than 10 people would be negatively impacted and I'm 100% certain other skull holders can help them out (between myself and half a dozen other people - we have dozens of extra skull codes we can help with.) On the other side, moving the Patron event negatively impacts an order of magnitude more people who are planning to attend.

Fred


Excuse me?

Kindly take your attitude elsewhere Fred.

I NEVER suggested removing the patron event at Skull Con, I mentioned that there is a non zero number of people who do not own a skull but will have Patron codes and it would be a good idea to have something for Patrons who don't also own skulls for the 2022 year.

Maybe before you attack me you might take a moment to verify you know what I'm actually saying.


I was replying based on your post - telling Jeff (in your words) "it seems rather shitty to tell all 2022 patrons they don't get anything because they don't also own a skull.." was quite rude. A better path is to find a way to make this possible for both Patrons and Skull holders. A fairly reasonable solution can be presented without the run being moved from Skullcon.

Historically (pre VTD), there was a finite number of Patron run slots (I think Origins 2019 was 28 or 32.) The expectation was never an unlimited number of people could do the run. Until 2020, the tokens given were cool as a collector but you wouldn't ever equip them in a NM+ build (none higher than rares.) This year, we know the token is the Ghost Accelerator (from QTR) so Patron holders would still get that, at minimum. It's pretty reasonable to go back to what the pre-Covid standard was of a finite number of slots for runs. I'm 100% certain that enough skull holders can provide codes for patrons without skulls who are lucky enough to get into one of those runs. Just between myself and a few others I know, at least 20 extra codes are available (I can provide 2-3 extras myself and my friends won't be using.) Not everyone who is a patron or has the code can make the trip in June to Illinois (just as not every Patron went to Origins.) We can absolutely run this as Jeff originally planned. Based on the schedule (assuming runs aren't concurrent and there is a break between runs) - there are likely a max of 10 patron runs - more likely 5 or 6. Depending on the number of people allowed (some patron runs at Origins had 16 players), it is well less than 100 total people - more likely 60-80. The hardcore fans tend to have skulls (probably 75%+ of them) meaning only 20 skulls extra might be needed, at the most.

Fred


A change from the established setup of having the Patron event happen at established conventions changing to a separate convention that has an entry fee of an expensive 7 year crafted token and telling any players who don't have this token that they do not get to participate for this year IS a shitty thing to do.

Thankfully Jeff had already stated in the comment you quoted to attack me that he was going to keep the Skull Con event AND provide a virtual event for any patrons who are unable to attend Skull Con, which was what I was expecting to be the offer when it was first posted.

The attack against me was unwarranted, was based on assuming I was asking for something completely counter to what I was actually asking for, and was something that Jeff had already updated with a valid compromise for the people involved.

If you're offering to freely give your extra skull vouchers for any patrons who do not already have a skull but have a patron code this year that is very kind of you. At the time of my post no one had made any such offer anywhere that I had seen.

Again I never suggested the Patron event be moved, that was your incorrect interpretation of my comments, I was just bringing to Jeff's attention that the change this year would negatively impact patrons vs other years and hoping he'd do something for those who might not attend Skull Con.
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Skull Con and Patron Side Event in June! 6 months 1 week ago #34

Can the Patron run be done at Gen Con?
"Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view" - Obi Wan Kenobi
Last edit: by Rob F.
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Skull Con and Patron Side Event in June! 6 months 1 week ago #35

Rob F wrote: Can the Patron run be done at Gen Con?


Unfortunately that would be unlikely. As-is, TD uses all of the space under Lucas Oil for runs and isn't allowed to have runs until Thursday (GT being an exception as it is an "unticketed free event" and the GT run usually starts shortly after set install finishes and runs until 11pm or so.) Sunday runs happen right until tear down needs to start. The Patron run is a full dungeon of its own so the space requirement is pretty substantial.

An alternate could be Gamehole Con but it presents the same challenges as not doing it at Skull Con as not everyone can make it there.

Really, it has to be Skull Con or virtual. Going virtual diminishes some of Skull Con but might allow for more people to participate (the counter to that argument are there are a TD vets that don't do VTD that would do an in-person run.)

Fred
What do we want? Evidence based science! When do we want it? After peer review!

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Items needed to complete my collection
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Skull Con and Patron Side Event in June! 6 months 1 week ago #36

I'm not 100% sure the patron event at Skull-Con is a run

Some Patrons without skulls will miss out.

Other skull holders who otherwise wouldn't may now bud on Patron pins.

Feels like a wash to me.
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