TOPIC: Updated Powers for Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace - FINAL

Matthew Hayward wrote: Looks good!

The legendary allows trinkets to be used any number of times per room, which might inhibit design of future trinkets (e.g. probably wouldn't make a future trinket which heals all party members by 1 when you change into the trinket form because it would amount to unlimited healing when paired with the legendary token).

I might make a 1/room or 1/game limit on Trinket forms with the legendary for this reason.

That seems pretty easy to fix by saying something like "heals 1 Pt to party 1st time in room used".

Mike Steele wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Looks good!

The legendary allows trinkets to be used any number of times per room, which might inhibit design of future trinkets (e.g. probably wouldn't make a future trinket which heals all party members by 1 when you change into the trinket form because it would amount to unlimited healing when paired with the legendary token).

I might make a 1/room or 1/game limit on Trinket forms with the legendary for this reason.

That seems pretty easy to fix by saying something like "heals 1 Pt to party 1st time in room used".

That would be offloading the complexity of these interactions onto new/lower rarity players - new players can only use trinkets once per game anyway, so wording like this will be confusing (it implies one can use it multiple times per game/room).

The concern is around inadvertently creating too powerful interactions between trinkets, which are 1/game for everyone but Inktomi holders, and people using Inktomi's.

To address that concern one can remember this odd power of Inktomi's when designing all future trinkets and put wording onto any future Trinkets that prevents it, or one can make a one time fix to Inktomis, when Inktomis is being changed anyway.

I know what I'd pick.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Looks good!

The legendary allows trinkets to be used any number of times per room, which might inhibit design of future trinkets (e.g. probably wouldn't make a future trinket which heals all party members by 1 when you change into the trinket form because it would amount to unlimited healing when paired with the legendary token).

I might make a 1/room or 1/game limit on Trinket forms with the legendary for this reason.

That seems pretty easy to fix by saying something like "heals 1 Pt to party 1st time in room used".

That would be offloading the complexity of these interactions onto new/lower rarity players - new players can only use trinkets once per game anyway, so wording like this will be confusing (it implies one can use it multiple times per game/room).

The concern is around inadvertently creating too powerful interactions between trinkets, which are 1/game for everyone but Inktomi holders, and people using Inktomi's.

To address that concern one can remember this odd power of Inktomi's when designing all future trinkets and put wording onto any future Trinkets that prevents it, or one can make a one time fix to Inktomis, when Inktomis is being changed anyway.


I know what I'd pick.

I know what I'd pick also. It wouldn't be to nerf Iktomi.

The wording on trinkets could be very easy to understand for newer players. Even something like "1/room, heal party 1 pt when transforming". Easy Peasy.

There isn't really a 1/game restriction on Trinkets currently anyway, if you have 10 Trinkets of Trollform (for instance) you could polymorph into Trollform 10 times in a room. Trinket of Trollform actually deals with exactly the type of situation you mention and it hasn't caused any problems I've heard of.

Late to this and as a newer poly druid have a quick question. When the changes came out for both necklaces it gave the elementals another bump (example: air elemental can hit units at range with a melee attack). Was the shaman's belt supposed to have those as well or is that just the fact that its a "tier" lower making the necklaces that extra bump better? I know they already give more damage bumps than the belt which makes sense but wasn't sure if the riders should have been added to the belt as well otherwise there seems to be little reason to use the belt over the trinkets other than elemental damage and damage resist.

Forrest France wrote: Late to this and as a newer poly druid have a quick question. When the changes came out for both necklaces it gave the elementals another bump (example: air elemental can hit units at range with a melee attack). Was the shaman's belt supposed to have those as well or is that just the fact that its a "tier" lower making the necklaces that extra bump better? I know they already give more damage bumps than the belt which makes sense but wasn't sure if the riders should have been added to the belt as well otherwise there seems to be little reason to use the belt over the trinkets other than elemental damage and damage resist.

I think you're right, in that they are less powerful because they are just UR level and in a lesser slot.

Question on the water form.
The way I'm reading it is you can divide your damage into multiple enemies.

So if you have two enemies and you hit for 100, you can deal 50 damage to each correct?

payden wrote: Question on the water form.
The way I'm reading it is you can divide your damage into multiple enemies.

So if you have two enemies and you hit for 100, you can deal 50 damage to each correct?

The first enemy would take full melee damage, and the second would take half damage rounded down.

Including all bonus damage? That seems to be broken.

Shouldn't this be handled as a pool, like other multi-target instances?

payden wrote: Question on the water form.
The way I'm reading it is you can divide your damage into multiple enemies.

So if you have two enemies and you hit for 100, you can deal 50 damage to each correct?

When you score a melee hit in water form, for whatever damage you deal to the first target (including all bonuses), you can deal half that amount to a second target, provided the second target is also in melee range of you.

So if your slider says 10 damage, and your damage bonus is +40, and you scored a critical hit, you would deal:

2*(10+40) =100 to the target you attacked

And 50 to a second target.

This is similar to fighters, who can deal full damage to a second target with their legendary necklace, and wizards who can deal full damage to a secondary target with the fork mage power.

Ooo I’ve been waiting to see if this got an update. Might be time to upgrade to Iktomi finally

Matthew Hayward wrote:

payden wrote: Question on the water form.
The way I'm reading it is you can divide your damage into multiple enemies.

So if you have two enemies and you hit for 100, you can deal 50 damage to each correct?

When you score a melee hit in water form, for whatever damage you deal to the first target (including all bonuses), you can deal half that amount to a second target, provided the second target is also in melee range of you.

So if your slider says 10 damage, and your damage bonus is +40, and you scored a critical hit, you would deal:

2*(10+40) =100 to the target you attacked

And 50 to a second target.

This is similar to fighters, who can deal full damage to a second target with their legendary necklace, and wizards who can deal full damage to a secondary target with the fork mage power.

Excellent explanation. It actually sounds like the Legendary is underpowered comparatively by only dealing 1/2 damage to a secondary target.

Mike Steele wrote: Excellent explanation. It actually sounds like the Legendary is underpowered comparatively by only dealing 1/2 damage to a secondary target.

To clarify that statement, are you saying it's under powered because Viv's does full damage to both targets, even though:
1) druid can achieve more total +damage than fighter
2) Ikotmi's Druid can cast a damage spell in addition to making the attack against 2 monsters,
3) Iktomi's Druid can cast a healing spell in addition to making the attack against 2 monsters
4) Iktomi's can alternatively choose to make a melee attack against a flier, which a fighter can't do without drinking a potion
5) Iktomi's can alternatively choose to ignore retribution damage, which a fighter cannot do without equiping different gear