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TOPIC: 2024 Rare Token Images < Part Three

2024 Rare Token Images < Part Three 1 year 3 weeks ago #37

Ho-Yi Fung wrote:

Impy wrote: Perhaps we can add Barbarians to Bead of Bull, so they're not left out something.

Also a reminder to folks that Polymorph changes will get discussed in class redesign, and we were requested to not take over this thread with it.

Jeff Martin wrote: A few tweaks here...and we still have the new Druid poly item -- the Trinket. I know it hard not to do, but let's not comment on HOW the power works for the Trinket. We won't screw over the Ranger or Druid Summoner. The power mechanics will be determined during the class re-design. Please just concentrate on the token images themselves. Thanks for the feedback!

truedungeon.com/files/CS24_Round04_Rare.jpg


As much as I'd like to not talk about how Polymorph will work, we need to at least know some basics to balance the damage wheel. As presented in the proof, Trollform is overpowered and competitive against a class Legendary.

Or, if we don't want to talk about other Polymorph items at all, let's just compare it against the other weapons in this image alone:
Trinket of Trollform: average damage 9.33
+1 Heavy Axe: average damage 6.5
+1 Oasis Bow: average damage 5.5
+1 Mystic Staff of the Serpent: average damage 5.5
+1 Sword of Seth: average damage 5.375
+1 Spear of Seth: average damage 4.5
Rod of Ra: average damage 4.5
Moon Dagger: average damage 3.5

Why is Trollform that much higher? You can argue it's because it can only be used in one combat per dungeon, but if this is the base power level of all Rare trinkets going forwards, what happens in a few years when we have enough unique trinkets for each combat of a dungeon? Are Druid intended to deal more combat damage than other classes?


The rare polymorph token needs to be comparable to a UR damage wheel because there are no UR polymorph potions and probably won't be for trinkets either (I hope I am wrong). This will be the UR equivalent damage wheel for a Druid that is starting to use UR tokens.

Lets take the new sword for example it is 12.5 damage wheel. That is a pretty big gap between melee classes that are swinging the UR sword and a starting UR Druid using trollform.

I think folks arguing about this trinket are missing the forest for the trees. I would trust the process and wait to see the class cards.
The topic has been locked.

2024 Rare Token Images < Part Three 1 year 3 weeks ago #38

OrionW wrote:

Ho-Yi Fung wrote:

Impy wrote: Perhaps we can add Barbarians to Bead of Bull, so they're not left out something.

Also a reminder to folks that Polymorph changes will get discussed in class redesign, and we were requested to not take over this thread with it.

Jeff Martin wrote: A few tweaks here...and we still have the new Druid poly item -- the Trinket. I know it hard not to do, but let's not comment on HOW the power works for the Trinket. We won't screw over the Ranger or Druid Summoner. The power mechanics will be determined during the class re-design. Please just concentrate on the token images themselves. Thanks for the feedback!

truedungeon.com/files/CS24_Round04_Rare.jpg


As much as I'd like to not talk about how Polymorph will work, we need to at least know some basics to balance the damage wheel. As presented in the proof, Trollform is overpowered and competitive against a class Legendary.

Or, if we don't want to talk about other Polymorph items at all, let's just compare it against the other weapons in this image alone:
Trinket of Trollform: average damage 9.33
+1 Heavy Axe: average damage 6.5
+1 Oasis Bow: average damage 5.5
+1 Mystic Staff of the Serpent: average damage 5.5
+1 Sword of Seth: average damage 5.375
+1 Spear of Seth: average damage 4.5
Rod of Ra: average damage 4.5
Moon Dagger: average damage 3.5

Why is Trollform that much higher? You can argue it's because it can only be used in one combat per dungeon, but if this is the base power level of all Rare trinkets going forwards, what happens in a few years when we have enough unique trinkets for each combat of a dungeon? Are Druid intended to deal more combat damage than other classes?


The rare polymorph token needs to be comparable to a UR damage wheel because there are no UR polymorph potions and probably won't be for trinkets either (I hope I am wrong). This will be the UR equivalent damage wheel for a Druid that is starting to use UR tokens.

Lets take the new sword for example it is 12.5 damage wheel. That is a pretty big gap between melee classes that are swinging the UR sword and a starting UR Druid using trollform.

I think folks arguing about this trinket are missing the forest for the trees. I would trust the process and wait to see the class cards.

Wait, why does a rare need to be a UR in power level? Now that it's not consumable there is no reason an appropriately powerful trinket couldn't be made at UR.
The topic has been locked.

2024 Rare Token Images < Part Three 1 year 3 weeks ago #39

OrionW wrote:

Ho-Yi Fung wrote:

Impy wrote: Perhaps we can add Barbarians to Bead of Bull, so they're not left out something.

Also a reminder to folks that Polymorph changes will get discussed in class redesign, and we were requested to not take over this thread with it.

Jeff Martin wrote: A few tweaks here...and we still have the new Druid poly item -- the Trinket. I know it hard not to do, but let's not comment on HOW the power works for the Trinket. We won't screw over the Ranger or Druid Summoner. The power mechanics will be determined during the class re-design. Please just concentrate on the token images themselves. Thanks for the feedback!

truedungeon.com/files/CS24_Round04_Rare.jpg


As much as I'd like to not talk about how Polymorph will work, we need to at least know some basics to balance the damage wheel. As presented in the proof, Trollform is overpowered and competitive against a class Legendary.

Or, if we don't want to talk about other Polymorph items at all, let's just compare it against the other weapons in this image alone:
Trinket of Trollform: average damage 9.33
+1 Heavy Axe: average damage 6.5
+1 Oasis Bow: average damage 5.5
+1 Mystic Staff of the Serpent: average damage 5.5
+1 Sword of Seth: average damage 5.375
+1 Spear of Seth: average damage 4.5
Rod of Ra: average damage 4.5
Moon Dagger: average damage 3.5

Why is Trollform that much higher? You can argue it's because it can only be used in one combat per dungeon, but if this is the base power level of all Rare trinkets going forwards, what happens in a few years when we have enough unique trinkets for each combat of a dungeon? Are Druid intended to deal more combat damage than other classes?


The rare polymorph token needs to be comparable to a UR damage wheel because there are no UR polymorph potions and probably won't be for trinkets either (I hope I am wrong). This will be the UR equivalent damage wheel for a Druid that is starting to use UR tokens.

Lets take the new sword for example it is 12.5 damage wheel. That is a pretty big gap between melee classes that are swinging the UR sword and a starting UR Druid using trollform.

I think folks arguing about this trinket are missing the forest for the trees. I would trust the process and wait to see the class cards.


Looking at consumable PYPs , the most recent ones were in 2015, 2008, then three in 2007. If you consider all URs, then there's also the 2023 appreciation token. The lack of UR Polymorph Potions is likely due to a lack of appetite for a single-use PYP. Imagine if every run cost you a PYP! Now that they're reusable, there'll likely be a purple trinket; after all, in the first public round of designs, the proposed Charm of Trollform was a UR with wheel 6-8-10-12-14-16 (average damage: 11)
Cleric main / Druid secondary
The topic has been locked.

2024 Rare Token Images < Part Three 1 year 3 weeks ago #40

Endgame wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Ho-Yi Fung wrote:

Impy wrote: Perhaps we can add Barbarians to Bead of Bull, so they're not left out something.

Also a reminder to folks that Polymorph changes will get discussed in class redesign, and we were requested to not take over this thread with it.

Jeff Martin wrote: A few tweaks here...and we still have the new Druid poly item -- the Trinket. I know it hard not to do, but let's not comment on HOW the power works for the Trinket. We won't screw over the Ranger or Druid Summoner. The power mechanics will be determined during the class re-design. Please just concentrate on the token images themselves. Thanks for the feedback!

truedungeon.com/files/CS24_Round04_Rare.jpg


As much as I'd like to not talk about how Polymorph will work, we need to at least know some basics to balance the damage wheel. As presented in the proof, Trollform is overpowered and competitive against a class Legendary.

Or, if we don't want to talk about other Polymorph items at all, let's just compare it against the other weapons in this image alone:
Trinket of Trollform: average damage 9.33
+1 Heavy Axe: average damage 6.5
+1 Oasis Bow: average damage 5.5
+1 Mystic Staff of the Serpent: average damage 5.5
+1 Sword of Seth: average damage 5.375
+1 Spear of Seth: average damage 4.5
Rod of Ra: average damage 4.5
Moon Dagger: average damage 3.5

Why is Trollform that much higher? You can argue it's because it can only be used in one combat per dungeon, but if this is the base power level of all Rare trinkets going forwards, what happens in a few years when we have enough unique trinkets for each combat of a dungeon? Are Druid intended to deal more combat damage than other classes?


The rare polymorph token needs to be comparable to a UR damage wheel because there are no UR polymorph potions and probably won't be for trinkets either (I hope I am wrong). This will be the UR equivalent damage wheel for a Druid that is starting to use UR tokens.

Lets take the new sword for example it is 12.5 damage wheel. That is a pretty big gap between melee classes that are swinging the UR sword and a starting UR Druid using trollform.

I think folks arguing about this trinket are missing the forest for the trees. I would trust the process and wait to see the class cards.

Wait, why does a rare need to be a UR in power level? Now that it's not consumable there is no reason an appropriately powerful trinket couldn't be made at UR.


I am all for dropping Lenses of the Fae and having a UR level trinket in this set.
The topic has been locked.

2024 Rare Token Images < Part Three 1 year 3 weeks ago #41

OrionW wrote: I am all for dropping Lenses of the Fae and having a UR level trinket in this set.


Keep Lenses of the Fae they are awesome and need a reprint. Thanks
The topic has been locked.

2024 Rare Token Images < Part Three 1 year 3 weeks ago #42

Kusig wrote:

OrionW wrote: I am all for dropping Lenses of the Fae and having a UR level trinket in this set.


Keep Lenses of the Fae they are awesome and need a reprint. Thanks


I agree, Lenses of the Fae are a great reprint.
The topic has been locked.

2024 Rare Token Images < Part Three 1 year 3 weeks ago #43

Matt wrote:

Endgame wrote: Now that the Bracelets of Arcane Sight have been added to the set, maybe add +2 scroll damage to them, so it reads +2 spell and scroll damage?

This would pair nicely with the 4* scroll item in the set, and I think rare wizards are the ones most likely to end up using scrolls, but if someone was really into scrolls (like the bard in my group), they could keep building a scroll build.


It is a bit of a wink at a certain movie that takes place in a Middle Eastern desert...with Nazis...and snakes. God, I hate snakes.

+1 here. Been a while since scroll got some love and adding this helps encourage scroll use and alt build options for the rare to UR- build crowd. Most UR+-Relic folks i'd imagine using a slot expander item so it doesn't push creep there. Maybe upgrade the transmute glasses to c/u/r?

Gloves of the Raider bothers me a bit name wise. It feels very close to Raider's Gloves that came out in 2018. Since this is a effective reprint, why can't we just reprint Gloves of Treasure finding and keep the current art? Treasure finding fits theme wise to me as adventurer's often search for treasure in the desert/tombs.

Token Conjurer
Geek Dreamweaver
Nerdomancer
Author of the never-to-be-released "The Secret of Trees"
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2024 Rare Token Images < Part Three 1 year 3 weeks ago #44

Jeff Martin wrote:

Matt wrote:

Endgame wrote: Now that the Bracelets of Arcane Sight have been added to the set, maybe add +2 scroll damage to them, so it reads +2 spell and scroll damage?

This would pair nicely with the 4* scroll item in the set, and I think rare wizards are the ones most likely to end up using scrolls, but if someone was really into scrolls (like the bard in my group), they could keep building a scroll build.


It is a bit of a wink at a certain movie that takes place in a Middle Eastern desert...with Nazis...and snakes. God, I hate snakes.

+1 here. Been a while since scroll got some love and adding this helps encourage scroll use and alt build options for the rare to UR- build crowd. Most UR+-Relic folks i'd imagine using a slot expander item so it doesn't push creep there. Maybe upgrade the transmute glasses to c/u/r?

Gloves of the Raider bothers me a bit name wise. It feels very close to Raider's Gloves that came out in 2018. Since this is a effective reprint, why can't we just reprint Gloves of Treasure finding and keep the current art? Treasure finding fits theme wise to me as adventurer's often search for treasure in the desert/tombs.


Why'd it have to be snakes? :)
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