TOPIC: Feedback on Rules Clarification

Incognito wrote: I would guess that the new ruling is a result of Horns (Horn of the Blessed Ox).

It also clarifies issues with the Horn of Blasting, Minotaur Horn of Alert, Lamp of the Efreeti/Marid.

It does make the Horn of the Valkyrie worse. That already requires a Standard Action and now you might need to ready it to.

My main concerns:

1. There are a ridiculous number of slotless items and it will be confusing which ones need to be readied and which ones don't

2. Moving certain items to Instantaneous actions may lead to power creep by essentially allowing players to do a third action each round (Standard + Free + Instantaneous).

To Jeff: Don't worry too much about Grind. I can always make rules adjustments (and in your response you gave your blessing for some slight Grind variances if necessary).

I know the app creators don't want a new slot but if the horns need a slot so they require an action it would not be the end of the world imo. I am just confused about how some slotless tokens would work now (in particular Ash Pouch and Death Die, but also the new Uncommon Tome for Bards.

Incognito wrote: I would guess that the new ruling is a result of Horns (Horn of the Blessed Ox).

It also clarifies issues with the Horn of Blasting, Minotaur Horn of Alert, Lamp of the Efreeti/Marid.

It does make the Horn of the Valkyrie worse. That already requires a Standard Action and now you might need to ready it to.

My main concerns:

1. There are a ridiculous number of slotless items and it will be confusing which ones need to be readied and which ones don't

2. Moving certain items to Instantaneous actions may lead to power creep by essentially allowing players to do a third action each round (Standard + Free + Instantaneous).

To Jeff: Don't worry too much about Grind. I can always make rules adjustments (and in your response you gave your blessing for some slight Grind variances if necessary).

Somewhat off topic but in response to your point 1 - I wish Jeff would put a limit on "slotless" items. It would lessen game complexity, increase build diversity, and save me from having to purchase more Dansco binder pages ☺

valetutto wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks for the feedback everyone. Good stuff!

And also, in events like True Grind, do they allow you to prep something with a free action for use in the next round? Like "Hey, I did my standard attack, and now I am using my free action to swap to a missiles weapon that I'll use next round -- allowing me to have a free action at the end of the second round I can use for something else."

Thanks for the feedback!

All DM's i've encountered to date have allowed swapping to missiles or melee as you've described above.
In fact I didn't know you couldn't do it until this thread.

Makes me feel like i'm been misplaying for a while too as i've always assumed the same.

Agree also on seems like the proliferation of slotless items. I'd rather simplify rules and or errata tokens as needed vs introducing another 'mechanic' into the game. Time is always the enemy in this game from coaching/training to the rooms themselves.

This game we focus and advertise being approachable to anyone. Why would want to add further complications. Otherwise very real risk of having a dm explain actions in a room during a live run does not seen conductive to that purpose.

Matt wrote:

valetutto wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks for the feedback everyone. Good stuff!

And also, in events like True Grind, do they allow you to prep something with a free action for use in the next round? Like "Hey, I did my standard attack, and now I am using my free action to swap to a missiles weapon that I'll use next round -- allowing me to have a free action at the end of the second round I can use for something else."

Thanks for the feedback!

All DM's i've encountered to date have allowed swapping to missiles or melee as you've described above.
In fact I didn't know you couldn't do it until this thread.

Makes me feel like i'm been misplaying for a while too as i've always assumed the same.

Agree also on seems like the proliferation of slotless items. I'd rather simplify rules and or errata tokens as needed vs introducing another 'mechanic' into the game. Time is always the enemy in this game from coaching/training to the rooms themselves.

This game we focus and advertise being approachable to anyone. Why would want to add further complications. Otherwise very real risk of having a dm explain actions in a room during a live run does not seen conductive to that purpose.

If we do anything, I’d suggest a slotless-item rule something like this:

You may equip any number of slotless items. There are three types of slotless items: static, reactionary, and triggered.

Static items provide a constant effect, like a stat boost. (e.g. Kvothe’s, RoSP segments)

Reactionary items have their effect in response to some event. (e.g. Druegar’s Death Die, Greater Alchemist Pouch, Greater Mistletoe, Flask of Sharing) They do not require a Free or Standard action to use, as their magics are on “auto-pilot.”

Triggered items release their effect upon command of their owner. Unless otherwise noted, they require a Standard Action to use. (E.g. Lamps, scrolls, potions, Horns...)

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Matt wrote:

valetutto wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks for the feedback everyone. Good stuff!

And also, in events like True Grind, do they allow you to prep something with a free action for use in the next round? Like "Hey, I did my standard attack, and now I am using my free action to swap to a missiles weapon that I'll use next round -- allowing me to have a free action at the end of the second round I can use for something else."

Thanks for the feedback!

All DM's i've encountered to date have allowed swapping to missiles or melee as you've described above.
In fact I didn't know you couldn't do it until this thread.

Makes me feel like i'm been misplaying for a while too as i've always assumed the same.

Agree also on seems like the proliferation of slotless items. I'd rather simplify rules and or errata tokens as needed vs introducing another 'mechanic' into the game. Time is always the enemy in this game from coaching/training to the rooms themselves.

This game we focus and advertise being approachable to anyone. Why would want to add further complications. Otherwise very real risk of having a dm explain actions in a room during a live run does not seen conductive to that purpose.

If we do anything, I’d suggest a slotless-item rule something like this:

You may equip any number of slotless items. There are three types of slotless items: static, reactionary, and triggered.

Static items provide a constant effect, like a stat boost. (e.g. Kvothe’s, RoSP segments)

Reactionary items have their effect in response to some event. (e.g. Druegar’s Death Die, Greater Alchemist Pouch, Greater Mistletoe, Flask of Sharing) They do not require a Free or Standard action to use, as their magics are on “auto-pilot.”

Triggered items release their effect upon command of their owner. Unless otherwise noted, they require a Standard Action to use. (E.g. Lamps, scrolls, potions, Horns...)

I like that

Harlax wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Matt wrote:

valetutto wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks for the feedback everyone. Good stuff!

And also, in events like True Grind, do they allow you to prep something with a free action for use in the next round? Like "Hey, I did my standard attack, and now I am using my free action to swap to a missiles weapon that I'll use next round -- allowing me to have a free action at the end of the second round I can use for something else."

Thanks for the feedback!

All DM's i've encountered to date have allowed swapping to missiles or melee as you've described above.
In fact I didn't know you couldn't do it until this thread.

Makes me feel like i'm been misplaying for a while too as i've always assumed the same.

Agree also on seems like the proliferation of slotless items. I'd rather simplify rules and or errata tokens as needed vs introducing another 'mechanic' into the game. Time is always the enemy in this game from coaching/training to the rooms themselves.

This game we focus and advertise being approachable to anyone. Why would want to add further complications. Otherwise very real risk of having a dm explain actions in a room during a live run does not seen conductive to that purpose.

If we do anything, I’d suggest a slotless-item rule something like this:

You may equip any number of slotless items. There are three types of slotless items: static, reactionary, and triggered.

Static items provide a constant effect, like a stat boost. (e.g. Kvothe’s, RoSP segments)

Reactionary items have their effect in response to some event. (e.g. Druegar’s Death Die, Greater Alchemist Pouch, Greater Mistletoe, Flask of Sharing) They do not require a Free or Standard action to use, as their magics are on “auto-pilot.”

Triggered items release their effect upon command of their owner. Unless otherwise noted, they require a Standard Action to use. (E.g. Lamps, scrolls, potions, Horns...)

I like that

We could also add something about which, if any of these, would require a Free Action to equip. I suggest a subset of Triggered items. The rest should just “work.” Forcing a dead player to try to equip their Death Die just seems macabre.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Matt wrote:

valetutto wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks for the feedback everyone. Good stuff!

And also, in events like True Grind, do they allow you to prep something with a free action for use in the next round? Like "Hey, I did my standard attack, and now I am using my free action to swap to a missiles weapon that I'll use next round -- allowing me to have a free action at the end of the second round I can use for something else."

Thanks for the feedback!

All DM's i've encountered to date have allowed swapping to missiles or melee as you've described above.
In fact I didn't know you couldn't do it until this thread.

Makes me feel like i'm been misplaying for a while too as i've always assumed the same.

Agree also on seems like the proliferation of slotless items. I'd rather simplify rules and or errata tokens as needed vs introducing another 'mechanic' into the game. Time is always the enemy in this game from coaching/training to the rooms themselves.

This game we focus and advertise being approachable to anyone. Why would want to add further complications. Otherwise very real risk of having a dm explain actions in a room during a live run does not seen conductive to that purpose.

If we do anything, I’d suggest a slotless-item rule something like this:

You may equip any number of slotless items. There are three types of slotless items: static, reactionary, and triggered.

Static items provide a constant effect, like a stat boost. (e.g. Kvothe’s, RoSP segments)

Reactionary items have their effect in response to some event. (e.g. Druegar’s Death Die, Greater Alchemist Pouch, Greater Mistletoe, Flask of Sharing) They do not require a Free or Standard action to use, as their magics are on “auto-pilot.”

Triggered items release their effect upon command of their owner. Unless otherwise noted, they require a Standard Action to use. (E.g. Lamps, scrolls, potions, Horns...)

I like that

We could also add something about which, if any of these, would require a Free Action to equip. I suggest a subset of Triggered items. The rest should just “work.” Forcing a dead player to try to equip their Death Die just seems macabre.

I like this idea, but please call the third group something else, not 'triggered'. Perhaps activated. My reasoning is because 'triggered' could be thought to mean that the effect happens in response to some event (ie automatically, without using an action...as triggered abilities do in Magic).

kurtreznor wrote: I like this idea, but please call the third group something else, not 'triggered'. Perhaps activated. My reasoning is because 'triggered' could be thought to mean that the effect happens in response to some event (ie automatically, without using an action...as triggered abilities do in Magic).

I would argue with you if I wanted to be wrong. I like “activated” much better.

I like it, where is dust and ammunition though?

jedibcg wrote: I like it, where is dust and ammunition though?

I would propose they are both Activated slotless.

Dusts, like potions, require a standard action.

Ammo is an exception, and doesn’t require any additional action, neither standard nor free.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

jedibcg wrote: I like it, where is dust and ammunition though?

I would propose they are both Activated slotless.

Dusts, like potions, require a standard action.

Ammo is an exception, and doesn’t require any additional action, neither standard nor free.

I would hope that dream dust, faerie dust, and pixie dust would be treated like ammo, even if the others require a standard action.

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

jedibcg wrote: I like it, where is dust and ammunition though?

I would propose they are both Activated slotless.

Dusts, like potions, require a standard action.

Ammo is an exception, and doesn’t require any additional action, neither standard nor free.

I would hope that dream dust, faerie dust, and pixie dust would be treated like ammo, even if the others require a standard action.

Ammo (including magic dust) would be categorized as reactionary items; used in response to making an attack with the appropriate weapon/spell.