TOPIC: Relic Druid neck

Does this allow you to instantly poly into an elemental multiple times in the same combat? So if I need to heal on the second round of combat can I pop back to human and heal that round then for round three change back to the elemental and attack? I always thought no because of the wording on the legendary giving the ability to cast while poly but recent post have suggested otherwise

Miathan wrote: Does this allow you to instantly poly into an elemental multiple times in the same combat? So if I need to heal on the second round of combat can I pop back to human and heal that round then for round three change back to the elemental and attack? I always thought no because of the wording on the legendary giving the ability to cast while poly but recent post have suggested otherwise

It does, you can change back and forth as many times as you want, the only restriction is you can't change into more than one form per room. That's a restriction I'd love to see removed from the Legendary, it should be able to change into multiple forms per room.

I'd much rather see the ability to polymorph multiple times a room removed. The spellcasting loophole highly suggests it was never intended that you could keep polymorphing over and over again in the same room.

This may make the relic worse, but it reinstates value that I thought the legendary was supposed to be supplying.

Restating how I think polymorph should work: "You may only polymorph once per room. You may return to original form as an instantaneous action, no longer being in a polymorphed state." Actually, I wouldn't be too bothered if you couldn't transform back to original form until the effect wears off at end of room under normal circumstances and whichever token(s) allow for breaking that rule. Makes spellcasting with tokens that allow spellcasting while polymorphed that much better.

Thanks.

Ian Lee wrote: I'd much rather see the ability to polymorph multiple times a room removed. The spellcasting loophole highly suggests it was never intended that you could keep polymorphing over and over again in the same room.

This may make the relic worse, but it reinstates value that I thought the legendary was supposed to be supplying.

Restating how I think polymorph should work: "You may only polymorph once per room. You may return to original form as an instantaneious action, no longer being in a polymorphed state." Actually, I wouldn't be too bothered if you couldn't transform back to original form until the effect wears off at end of room under normal circumstances and whichever token(s) allow for breaking that rule. Makes spellcasting with tokens that allow spellcasting while polymorphed that much better.

In my opinion, the Druid Class tokens are very weak in comparison with the other spellcasting classes, Cleric & Wizard. If they are modified, I think they need to be improved (significantly), not reduced in power even further.

Ian Lee wrote: I'd much rather see the ability to polymorph multiple times a room removed. The spellcasting loophole highly suggests it was never intended that you could keep polymorphing over and over again in the same room.

This may make the relic worse, but it reinstates value that I thought the legendary was supposed to be supplying.

Restating how I think polymorph should work: "You may only polymorph once per room. You may return to original form as an instantaneious action, no longer being in a polymorphed state." Actually, I wouldn't be too bothered if you couldn't transform back to original form until the effect wears off at end of room under normal circumstances and whichever token(s) allow for breaking that rule. Makes spellcasting with tokens that allow spellcasting while polymorphed that much better.

I think it’s a general feature of polymorph that it can be ended as an instantaneous action.

Mike Steele wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: I'd much rather see the ability to polymorph multiple times a room removed. The spellcasting loophole highly suggests it was never intended that you could keep polymorphing over and over again in the same room.

This may make the relic worse, but it reinstates value that I thought the legendary was supposed to be supplying.

Restating how I think polymorph should work: "You may only polymorph once per room. You may return to original form as an instantaneious action, no longer being in a polymorphed state." Actually, I wouldn't be too bothered if you couldn't transform back to original form until the effect wears off at end of room under normal circumstances and whichever token(s) allow for breaking that rule. Makes spellcasting with tokens that allow spellcasting while polymorphed that much better.

In my opinion, the Druid Class tokens are very weak in comparison with the other spellcasting classes, Cleric & Wizard. If they are modified, I think they need to be improved (significantly), not reduced in power even further.

Do you mean like add 'cast while polymorphed' to the relic, since you can effectively do that anyway? Then add '1 extra spell box per spell level (cast as free action)' to the legendary, to match the pattern of the new ones?

kurtreznor wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: I'd much rather see the ability to polymorph multiple times a room removed. The spellcasting loophole highly suggests it was never intended that you could keep polymorphing over and over again in the same room.

This may make the relic worse, but it reinstates value that I thought the legendary was supposed to be supplying.

Restating how I think polymorph should work: "You may only polymorph once per room. You may return to original form as an instantaneious action, no longer being in a polymorphed state." Actually, I wouldn't be too bothered if you couldn't transform back to original form until the effect wears off at end of room under normal circumstances and whichever token(s) allow for breaking that rule. Makes spellcasting with tokens that allow spellcasting while polymorphed that much better.

In my opinion, the Druid Class tokens are very weak in comparison with the other spellcasting classes, Cleric & Wizard. If they are modified, I think they need to be improved (significantly), not reduced in power even further.

Do you mean like add 'cast while polymorphed' to the relic, since you can effectively do that anyway? Then add '1 extra spell box per spell level (cast as free action)' to the legendary, to match the pattern of the new ones?

I think once the Cleric and Wizard Legendaries are locked in, the Druid one should be scaled similarly. Adding a spell box or two per level should definitely be part of that. I'm still hoping the Wizard and Cleric Legendaries get scaled back, I think they're far too powerful.

Mike Steele wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: I'd much rather see the ability to polymorph multiple times a room removed. The spellcasting loophole highly suggests it was never intended that you could keep polymorphing over and over again in the same room.

This may make the relic worse, but it reinstates value that I thought the legendary was supposed to be supplying.

Restating how I think polymorph should work: "You may only polymorph once per room. You may return to original form as an instantaneious action, no longer being in a polymorphed state." Actually, I wouldn't be too bothered if you couldn't transform back to original form until the effect wears off at end of room under normal circumstances and whichever token(s) allow for breaking that rule. Makes spellcasting with tokens that allow spellcasting while polymorphed that much better.

In my opinion, the Druid Class tokens are very weak in comparison with the other spellcasting classes, Cleric & Wizard. If they are modified, I think they need to be improved (significantly), not reduced in power even further.

Do you mean like add 'cast while polymorphed' to the relic, since you can effectively do that anyway? Then add '1 extra spell box per spell level (cast as free action)' to the legendary, to match the pattern of the new ones?

I think once the Cleric and Wizard Legendaries are locked in, the Druid one should be scaled similarly. Adding a spell box or two per level should definitely be part of that. I'm still hoping the Wizard and Cleric Legendaries get scaled back, I think they're far too powerful.

You do realize that the Druid already had 3 more spell boxes than the Wizards or Clerics, right? And that the Druids can be both awesome healers as well as awesome damage dealers with a single build with no significant trade-off, right? All while wearing above-average armor and having above average HP.

It is ok for Druids to not be the best at everything.

Fiddy wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: I'd much rather see the ability to polymorph multiple times a room removed. The spellcasting loophole highly suggests it was never intended that you could keep polymorphing over and over again in the same room.

This may make the relic worse, but it reinstates value that I thought the legendary was supposed to be supplying.

Restating how I think polymorph should work: "You may only polymorph once per room. You may return to original form as an instantaneious action, no longer being in a polymorphed state." Actually, I wouldn't be too bothered if you couldn't transform back to original form until the effect wears off at end of room under normal circumstances and whichever token(s) allow for breaking that rule. Makes spellcasting with tokens that allow spellcasting while polymorphed that much better.

In my opinion, the Druid Class tokens are very weak in comparison with the other spellcasting classes, Cleric & Wizard. If they are modified, I think they need to be improved (significantly), not reduced in power even further.

Do you mean like add 'cast while polymorphed' to the relic, since you can effectively do that anyway? Then add '1 extra spell box per spell level (cast as free action)' to the legendary, to match the pattern of the new ones?

I think once the Cleric and Wizard Legendaries are locked in, the Druid one should be scaled similarly. Adding a spell box or two per level should definitely be part of that. I'm still hoping the Wizard and Cleric Legendaries get scaled back, I think they're far too powerful.

You do realize that the Druid already had 3 more spell boxes than the Wizards or Clerics, right? And that the Druids can be both awesome healers as well as awesome damage dealers with a single build with no significant trade-off, right? All while wearing above-average armor and having above average HP.

It is ok for Druids to not be the best at everything.

I've heard all the arguments about how awesome Druids are, and I imagine that's one reason why Druids got such a low power Class Legendary compared to Clerics & Wizards. And while many years ago that was accurate (at one time maybe a decade ago Druids had the highest AC, highest saves, etc), it's not been true for a long time. Druids do damage spells, but not nearly as well as Wizards. Druids do healing spells, but not nearly as well as Clerics. Druids can use the Charm of Spell Swapping to come close to either healing with Clerics or damage with Wizards, but then they are one dimensional and pretty much a second rate Cleric or second rate Wizard. Druids are way down on the damage scale. Druids don't come close to highest AC anymore.

I find statements like "It is ok for Druids to not be the best at everything" pretty annoying, because it perpetuates that mistaken impression. The reality is that Druids don't really do anything best, and I'd just like them to not fall behind. Even though based on this token cycle it's clear they are going to.

I'm not asking for the Druids to have a better Class Legendary than the others, just equal. It doesn't seem like too much to ask to have the Class Legendary tokens for the three spellcasting classes to be roughly equivalent in power to each other. I don't think any impartial observer could look at them now and say that's remotely the case.

Mike Steele wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: I'd much rather see the ability to polymorph multiple times a room removed. The spellcasting loophole highly suggests it was never intended that you could keep polymorphing over and over again in the same room.

This may make the relic worse, but it reinstates value that I thought the legendary was supposed to be supplying.

Restating how I think polymorph should work: "You may only polymorph once per room. You may return to original form as an instantaneious action, no longer being in a polymorphed state." Actually, I wouldn't be too bothered if you couldn't transform back to original form until the effect wears off at end of room under normal circumstances and whichever token(s) allow for breaking that rule. Makes spellcasting with tokens that allow spellcasting while polymorphed that much better.

In my opinion, the Druid Class tokens are very weak in comparison with the other spellcasting classes, Cleric & Wizard. If they are modified, I think they need to be improved (significantly), not reduced in power even further.

Do you mean like add 'cast while polymorphed' to the relic, since you can effectively do that anyway? Then add '1 extra spell box per spell level (cast as free action)' to the legendary, to match the pattern of the new ones?

I think once the Cleric and Wizard Legendaries are locked in, the Druid one should be scaled similarly. Adding a spell box or two per level should definitely be part of that. I'm still hoping the Wizard and Cleric Legendaries get scaled back, I think they're far too powerful.

You do realize that the Druid already had 3 more spell boxes than the Wizards or Clerics, right? And that the Druids can be both awesome healers as well as awesome damage dealers with a single build with no significant trade-off, right? All while wearing above-average armor and having above average HP.

It is ok for Druids to not be the best at everything.

I've heard all the arguments about how awesome Druids are, and I imagine that's one reason why Druids got such a low power Class Legendary compared to Clerics & Wizards. And while many years ago that was accurate (at one time maybe a decade ago Druids had the highest AC, highest saves, etc), it's not been true for a long time. Druids do damage spells, but not nearly as well as Wizards. Druids do healing spells, but not nearly as well as Clerics. Druids can use the Charm of Spell Swapping to come close to either healing with Clerics or damage with Wizards, but then they are one dimensional and pretty much a second rate Cleric or second rate Wizard. Druids are way down on the damage scale. Druids don't come close to highest AC anymore.

I find statements like "It is ok for Druids to not be the best at everything" pretty annoying, because it perpetuates that mistaken impression. The reality is that Druids don't really do anything best, and I'd just like them to not fall behind. Even though based on this token cycle it's clear they are going to.

I'm not asking for the Druids to have a better Class Legendary than the others, just equal. It doesn't seem like too much to ask to have the Class Legendary tokens for the three spellcasting classes to be roughly equivalent in power to each other. I don't think any impartial observer could look at them now and say that's remotely the case.

Do you think Druid's should have the highest AC and highest saves? I don't. And they shouldnt have better healing then clerics or better spell damage then wizards imo. Plus Druid's get to polymorph which is cool. I get you don't want them falling too far behind but I'm not sure they are. We'll have to wait and see after the final, final, final, final version of the Tokens are done..

Fiddy wrote: It is ok for Druids to not be the best at everything.

YOU TAKE THAT BACK!!!