TOPIC: TOKEN FAKES - a possible reality!!!???!!!

ALL interested TOKEN traders/collectors.

Following the Riddle Reveal where someone asked Jeff if FAKES were being detected by TD I was concerned (for the sake of the game) IF fakes were being infused into the game.

I made it a personal quest to see how easy it would be to purchase the items needed to make FAKES...Sadly it is somewhat easy to acquire the raw materials to make FAKES - therefore I must caution the TOKEN community to be wary and alert for FAKES.

If it starts to appear that Ultra Rares are being found easily on eBay - I suggest that the auctions are ignored and people stick to trading tokens for tokens - lest the risk of getting a fake happen to you.

I am NOT saying the current two PURPS up for sale on eBay are fake - I, in fact believe them to be very real...I am not saying that anyone that buys the raw materials is on a course to do something wrong...I have often dreamed of making a token out of an old wooden token game I have in the closet... WHAT I AM SAYING IS - IF you have PURPS for trade or sale - please consider trading them for tokens first - and consider keeping those trades on the TD forum...eBay is a nice place for most items...but with the risk of FAKES spoiling the game...let's try to keep that to a minimum.

The less attention tokens get on eBay for $$$$ the better chance they will keep knock-off copies down to a minimum.

Call me over protective...but nothing sounds worse than having a bunch of FAKE Ultra-Rares running around. Which I assume TD would detect and destroy - but perhaps not until $$$$ or tokens were exchanged first.

Gary - guardian of tokens and token traders everywhere...

p.s. Since the tokens have a TRADEMARK on them - I suppose Jeff could go after any creator of fakes with a TRADEMARK infringement - minimum $500 fine per occurance and coverage of plantif's legal fees...

BOTTOM LINE - Don't make fakes.

Here here!

Besides, token collecting, at least to me, is more about supporting TD than acquiring the tokens themselves. I spent more than I care to admit on tokens at the con, but I did it mainly to support a game I feel strongly about and wish to see made even better in the future. Even the ultra-rares I was able to acquire were through multiple runs, each $19.50 I was more than happy to shell out to keep this thing going.

If you make fakes, you are not only being dishonest and breaching trademark law, but you are hurting the game you like to play. That doesn't make much sense, now does it?

Here here!
If you make fakes, you are not only being dishonest and breaching trademark law, but you are hurting the game you like to play. That doesn't make much sense, now does it?

True, but there's a lot of dishonest people in the world who will do anything to make a buck. Or maybe a disgruntled adventurer or whatever.

Part of the fun is just getting the tokens through a trade or finding them in the dungeon.

And since you can still complete TD without any tokens at all, I'm not going to go insane buying them off E-Bay. But I'll buy some bags from TD to help support them.

It was funny hopping around e-bay to find what equipment you would need to make fake Tokens. It looks like for about $200.00 you could set up a nice fake token business. The real problem is that I don't you would be able to find enough people interested buying token for cash to get your money back.

So we may have a great criminal mastermind who buys token making equipment and tokens from Ebay but cant find anyone to buy his fake tokens. And so he loses $280 bucks.

I can't see how it would be in TD's interest to pay a couple thousand dollars or more in lawyer fees to assess a 500 dollar fine against someone if you could even find them in the first place to submit the suit. This whole thing is probaly a red herring. If people were doing it, it's such a small percentage that there's not much that can be done about it that would be cost effective. If these people setup shop and were hawking their fakes right outside, that migth be different. But as it is the best thing is just to pull fakes as you find them.

Did you miss the part where the Plantif can get lawyer fees covered in the suit???

Henwy,
I don't think it would be that hard to do at all. Jeff would call e-bay's fraud department, identifies himself as the trademark holder and claimes the tokens are forgeries. E-bay turns over all information about the seller. A lawyer sends an cease and desist letter (fairly boilerplate for a lawyer). Problem solved.

E-bay has a long history of helping folks squish fake auctions. It is in their best interest to cooperate with legitimate complaints.

Did you know that depending on the state, you often have to file you claim in the place where the person is committing their fraud? That means, you first have to identify them and then somehow file the grievance in court in indy. Around a year later it should probaly wind its way to court in which case the person is all likely to ditch and simply not pay. Then it's years more of litigation trying to force them to pay, none of which would be covered even if worked out that the original fees were. It'd never work. Companies suing individuals for trademark infringement is usually an exercise in insanity unless they're large enouhg that they actually have things like a storefront or at least some actual buisness going. At best you can try to scare them with a cease and desist and they're more than likely to not care and call your bluff. These are criminals after all.

Henwy,
I don't think it would be that hard to do at all. Jeff would call e-bay's fraud department, identifies himself as the trademark holder and claimes the tokens are forgeries. E-bay turns over all information about the seller. A lawyer sends an cease and desist letter (fairly boilerplate for a lawyer). Problem solved.

E-bay has a long history of helping folks squish fake auctions. It is in their best interest to cooperate with legitimate complaints.

As for ebay helping out...I wouldn't count on it. I've been the victim of fraud on ebay 2-3 times now. In both cases, the information they provided to ebay was fake. There was jack nothing to do about it. Filed a notice witht he feebs since it's interstate commerce and all, but that was the end of it. Couldn't locate the individuals in either case and even if I could, short of taking the law into my own hands, no one higher up was willing to do anything to help. I just wrote off both cases as a loss.

The thing is....you can always try to scare someone with a C&D letter and the like. But if these people are actually criminals, they know that that's a lump of bullshit to scare duffers. It has no teeth to it because the laws of jurisdiction are a mess and half the time you can't locate these individuals anyway. No one is going to pull a columbo to see that you get your cash back for a fake ring of evasion.