TOPIC: Transmute Recipes -- Part Two

I was ok with the Fleece requirements the first go around. If you want more Fleece....then play more TD. If not, then buy them on the cheap (they are cheap now IMO) from the secondary market.

Jeff bumped up the Fleece last go around and bumped up ticket prices and....tickets still sold out and I believe he said Token purchases were at a record high for pre-orders.

I think he could have easily stuck with the original Fleece requirements and the same thing would have happened this year.

I'm just happy we are half way home. Done arguing about Token powers and in the home stretch arguing about transmute costs.

I am glad to see a bump on the Darkwood. Have tons of them.

Matt wrote: The whetstone really seems like might as well get an UR weapon at that point,

If I did my math right, I can just buy a +2 War Shillelagh or a +2 Hammer of Thunderbolts from, to give an example, TD Tavern for less than it would cost me to buy the components for a Whetstone. And I don't have to pay for shipping to/from TD HQ. I'm not seeing the point here either.

Is the FoP Dog aimed at newer players? As a 3 star 3 planks feels odd, i can see a plank plus something else but how many players who go off pulls alone are likely to have that?

For reference, I've done a total of seven runs over three years. I have approximately enough in my "mulch pile" to make *one* Plank.

Belt feels steep but that's also likely due to no intermediate transmute like we had with belt/shirts recently.

It's not just you. Pricing this out, it costs 75% more than the Blessed Tempest Gloves (which appears to be the closest analogue in last year's set) would cost me to put together right now.

Treasure booster actually feels approachable,

Yeah, I'm on the edge as to whether I put this one together or not. I think it depends on what I pull at GHC.

I'll leave the Golden Fleece discussion to the bourgeoisie who actually know how the high-end game works.

Thanks Jeff, I think the changes are good.

Personally, I really appreciate the lowered Golden Fleece requirements for these recipes. I just became a 6th level player this year, and it's only in the last couple of years that I've been part of a full 10-person guild. We needed to buy additional 2016 and 2017 monster bits for the Bead of the Lucky Traveler, and we still need to pull a few more bits at Gamehole Con even after drawing a good amount at Gen Con. Maybe some other folks are swimming in monster bits, but we're probably going to be turning to the secondary market to get additional Fleece for some of these recipes.

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Phil Norton wrote: Thanks for the changes and the explanation Jeff!

From a copy-edit standpoint (For the eventual token guide)

Kilts should all be "Kilt of X" and not "Kilt of the X"

The Legendary Lute recipe, if it is going to require ALL 3, then you can just list the 3 instruments.

Phil

I think you can use 2 of the same instrument. 2 lutes, 2 ocarinas, etc.

Ninja'd

Got it. Thanks Mike/Wade

I would add (including Duplicates) to this like with the Charm recipe

Eric wrote: re: Arnold, I understand that has been the precedent with previous legendaries, but I'm challenging whether that's something that needs to be stick in stone going forward.

I'm also trying to work backwards from the current legendary recipes. Given the recipe for the rogue legendary, how much would someone need to play True Dungeon every year to get a shot at making one? How much would that person need to spend (buying PYPs, buying trade goods). Finally, looking at that number, is that a number that feels like it sufficiently rewards players just for playing? Or do these feel hopelessly out of reach?

We don't necessarily have to end up agreeing (it's fine if we don't!), but my feeling is that many new players (who don't really participate in this process, btw) would look at what legendaries have cost, historically, and conclude that they'll never be able to make one. And I think that we'd have way more engaged, token-buying players by smoothing out the cost curve.

"It's Jeff's world. We just play in it" - some forum member

You're certainly welcome to contemplate the costs associated with crafting Legendary tokens. It's fun to talk about tokens and what it takes to make them.

I think the details are already in the moniker - Legendary. In D&D, a legendary weapon/artifact is something you might spend the entire quest chasing down. Chances are you don't just happen upon it at level 10. Rather, it's something you spend years and years striving for. So to address your first line of inquiry - I do think legendary tokens should require extraordinary effort to achieve. Should players who play each module once be able to craft one of these top-powered items? I don't think that's how they were designed.

Economics clearly play a big part in this game. If you don't have disposable income to put token orders together, you're unlikely to ever make a legendary token. It would take a nice windfall at the treasure box, like a 25k bar to put you in punter's distance. But here's a rough breakdown of the starting point:

1 Relic - ~$300
1 25k bar - ~$500
1 Wish ring - ~$230
2 PYPs- ~$200
+ tons of trade goods


The numbers above don't probably weren't set up to reward players just for playing. Relic tokens reward players who get the token itch and take the plunge. Then, those Relics become timeless and give you the breathing room you need to save up for a varying period of time. As I mentioned previously, Enhanced and Exalted tokens occupy the space of rewarding players for just playing.

So TL;DR, i think we have a Round-Hole-Square-Peg situation going here. You'd like Legendaries to occupy a space that (imho) they are not meant to.

BeLinda Mathie wrote: Personally, I really appreciate the lowered Golden Fleece requirements for these recipes. I just became a 6th level player this year, and it's only in the last couple of years that I've been part of a full 10-person guild. We needed to buy additional 2016 and 2017 monster bits for the Bead of the Lucky Traveler, and we still need to pull a few more bits at Gamehole Con even after drawing a good amount at Gen Con. Maybe some other folks are swimming in monster bits, but we're probably going to be turning to the secondary market to get additional Fleece for some of these recipes.

The downside of all this is that I thought I had enough bits to make what I wanted this year, with a lot of spares to trade. Turns out I need twice as many Fleece as I thought I would, so not so much. I may be turning a few of would-have-been-Beads into to Fleece instead.

I don’t say this to taunt you. But what this year has taught me is, if you get your hands on a bit, never ever let it go.

I do wish you luck, and hope you don’t get gouged too badly

Jeff Martin wrote:
Note: If there is a new set transmute, similar to the Boots/Kilts, I will communicate the number of years and the exact recipe for that multi-year item when it is announced. I will not publish the powers they will remain a secret until it can be transmuted.

Along those lines, it might be nice to give a heads up at some point about the high level expectations for a recipe for the Teeth/Jaw of Cavadar. I have been collecting teeth under the assumption that it would be similar to the other Grand Eldritch and require one of each standard trade good.

There are more conventions. And some people make multiple conventions.

But that does not necessarily translate into more runs.

I made it to Origins this year and did 3 runs in one glorious day.

But I cut back from 4 runs to 2 at GenCon. I will do 2 again this year at GHC


My minion Son did not go to Origins, did 3 runs rather than 4 at GenCon and will do 2 rather than 3 this year at GHC.

We did TDC at Carbondale in 2017 and managed to do 6 runs each. Pretty much back to back for two days. It was truly glorious.


Net, we are actually doing less this year.

Updated recipes look much better. Tomorrow afternoon I will run the math on the two recipe options for the Legendary lute if it isn’t too late.

Phil Norton wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:
Note: If there is a new set transmute, similar to the Boots/Kilts, I will communicate the number of years and the exact recipe for that multi-year item when it is announced. I will not publish the powers they will remain a secret until it can be transmuted.

Along those lines, it might be nice to give a heads up at some point about the high level expectations for a recipe for the Teeth/Jaw of Cavadar. I have been collecting teeth under the assumption that it would be similar to the other Grand Eldritch and require one of each standard trade good.

Good point. If that isn't going to be similar to the Rod of Seven Parts, we should know that sooner rather than later.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

BeLinda Mathie wrote: Personally, I really appreciate the lowered Golden Fleece requirements for these recipes. I just became a 6th level player this year, and it's only in the last couple of years that I've been part of a full 10-person guild. We needed to buy additional 2016 and 2017 monster bits for the Bead of the Lucky Traveler, and we still need to pull a few more bits at Gamehole Con even after drawing a good amount at Gen Con. Maybe some other folks are swimming in monster bits, but we're probably going to be turning to the secondary market to get additional Fleece for some of these recipes.

The downside of all this is that I thought I had enough bits to make what I wanted this year, with a lot of spares to trade. Turns out I need twice as many Fleece as I thought I would, so not so much. I may be turning a few of would-have-been-Beads into to Fleece instead.

I don’t say this to taunt you. But what this year has taught me is, if you get your hands on a bit, never ever let it go.

I do wish you luck, and hope you don’t get gouged too badly

We suspected monster bits would be important and have been working toward getting full sets. Going to Origins this year really helped with the 2017 and 2018 bits. But we'll still need more. Sigh.