TOPIC: Clarifying Lute of Free Fury / Widseth's 'other actions'

I noticed the TokenDB entries for Lute of Free Fure and Widseth's Legendary Lute define what "may take other actions" means:

The bard may perform other Standard Actions (physically attack, cast spells, perform a Lore check, read scrolls, activate wands, drink potions, etc.) while performing bardsong.

tokendb.com/token/lute-of-free-fury/
tokendb.com/token/widseths-legendary-lute/

First off, I assume this means they can take up to 1 additional standard action, of any type that is a standard action, per round.

But! This seems to imply a Bard with these instruments has the following action possibilities while performing Bardsong:

1. Bardsong
2. Bardsong, Free action
3. Bardsong, Additional standard action
4. Bardsong, Additional standard action, free action

In particular, the following: Bardsong, Additional free action, free action is not permitted?

For example, a Bard couldn't use two of: Shield of the Scholar's scroll ability, Stu's +3 Handy Stein's Drink ability, Pouch of Tulz's ability, or Ring of Spell Storing ability in a single round.

Is that right?

Or can Bards downgrade their bonus standard action into a free action?

No one else is allowed to downgrade their standard action into a 2nd free action.
Since it doesnt specifically say that the Bard can, I would believe they can not.

Wade Schwendemann wrote: No one else is allowed to downgrade their standard action into a 2nd free action.
Since it doesnt specifically say that the Bard can, I would believe they can not.

I 100% agree rules as written - I just want to double check if the TDb entry should say they can do "an additional standard or free action" while using the lute if something else was intended.

Matthew Hayward wrote: I assume this means they can take up to 1 additional standard action, of any type that is a standard action, per round.

That is not how I would describe it.

They don't get an additional Action of any kind. To get a feel for the flavor, see the TDb description for Widseth's Mystical Lute and extrapolate that to the other high-powered bard instruments.

But if that doesn't make sense, consult the wisdom of David Sleaze: Punk Magician .

Druegar wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I assume this means they can take up to 1 additional standard action, of any type that is a standard action, per round.

That is not how I would describe it.

They don't get an additional Action of any kind. To get a feel for the flavor, see the TDb description for Widseth's Mystical Lute and extrapolate that to the other high-powered bard instruments.

But if that doesn't make sense, consult the wisdom of David Sleaze: Punk Magician .

Ok... here is the problem.

Rules as written say I may take actions. Plural.

So I'm trying to clarify I can't, in one round, do Bardsong, and also attack, and also read a scroll, and also drink a potion.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Rules as written say I may take actions. Plural.

You are misinterpreting that sentence. One Standard plus one Free equals two. Plural
But keep reading.

Matthew Hayward wrote: So I'm trying to clarify I can't, in one round, do Bardsong, and also attack, and also read a scroll, and also drink a potion.

In one round you could do any/all of the following:

• Perform bardsong
• ONE Standard Action
• ONE Free Action

You don't have to do them all, but you can't do any more.

That all said, the wording could be stated clearer, so how's this:
While performing bardsong, the bard may simultaneously perform a Standard Action (e.g., physically attack, cast spells, perform a Lore check, read scrolls, activate wands, drink potions, etc.)

Druegar wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Rules as written say I may take actions. Plural.

You are misinterpreting that sentence. One Standard plus one Free equals two. Plural
But keep reading.

Matthew Hayward wrote: So I'm trying to clarify I can't, in one round, do Bardsong, and also attack, and also read a scroll, and also drink a potion.

In one round you could do any/all of the following:

• Perform bardsong
• ONE Standard Action
• ONE Free Action

You don't have to do them all, but you can't do any more.

That all said, the wording could be stated clearer, so how's this:
While performing bardsong, the bard may simultaneously perform a Standard Action (e.g., physically attack, cast spells, perform a Lore check, read scrolls, activate wands, drink potions, etc.)

Perfect!

Druegar wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Rules as written say I may take actions. Plural.

You are misinterpreting that sentence. One Standard plus one Free equals two. Plural
But keep reading.

Matthew Hayward wrote: So I'm trying to clarify I can't, in one round, do Bardsong, and also attack, and also read a scroll, and also drink a potion.

In one round you could do any/all of the following:

• Perform bardsong
• ONE Standard Action
• ONE Free Action

You don't have to do them all, but you can't do any more.

That all said, the wording could be stated clearer, so how's this:
While performing bardsong, the bard may simultaneously perform a Standard Action (e.g., physically attack, cast spells, perform a Lore check, read scrolls, activate wands, drink potions, etc.)

Which, to me, would seem to allow bardsong plus Lenses of Sage Speed, for example.

Correct? The bard is performing bardsong, and the magic of the lute allows a standard action of casting a scroll. Then the lenses allow a 2nd scroll.

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Which, to me, would seem to allow bardsong plus Lenses of Sage Speed, for example.

Correct? The bard is performing bardsong, and the magic of the lute allows a standard action of casting a scroll. Then the lenses allow a 2nd scroll.

That seems cromulent to me. Is there a reason why one would think the aforementioned scenario would not be valid?

Druegar wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Which, to me, would seem to allow bardsong plus Lenses of Sage Speed, for example.

Correct? The bard is performing bardsong, and the magic of the lute allows a standard action of casting a scroll. Then the lenses allow a 2nd scroll.

That seems cromulent to me. Is there a reason why one would think the aforementioned scenario would not be valid?

If we do this I think the lenses wording needs a re-work.

The lenses wording makes it very clear the only way to use the lenses is to expend your standard action reading a scroll, nothing else. Doing a SA of "bardsong and reading a scroll" is not the same as reading a scroll.

I guess the real question we need to nail down here is:

When using LoFF do you get 2 standard actions to spend, one of which must be bardsong?

Or do you get 1 standard action, which has the effect of performing bardsong and allowing you to gain the effect
of any other SA.

Or do you get 1 standard action to spend which may not be Bardsong, and also bardsong is occurring but you didn't spend any actions on it.

In one round you could do any/all of the following:

Perform bardsong with Lute of FF or Legendary Lute
ONE Standard Action Use Lenses to a scroll
ONE Free Action Use to second scroll.

Makes sense to me....

jedibcg wrote: In one round you could do any/all of the following:

Perform bardsong with Lute of FF or Legendary Lute
ONE Standard Action Use Lenses to a scroll
ONE Free Action Use to second scroll.

Makes sense to me....

So on this interpretation:

1. How many standard actions occurred?

2. How many standard actions did the bard perform?

I'm guessing 2 standard actions and the bard performed both of them?