TOPIC: 2027 Volunteer & Participation Tokens

Here are the various Participation and Volunteer tokens for 2027. Note that the Relics you can make with the Participation token groups are displayed with their respective tokens.

truedungeon.com/files/PartandVols.jpg

See Token Notes PDF for more info about the Elder Tome.

Half of the VTD participation tokens don't make sense to me.

They are in three groups of pairs by slot, okay.

Marks, sure, whatever.

Fire Opal Orb is overly generic, but I'd rather spend effort pointing out how too generic other tokens are than this.

Ruby Ellipsoid has at least two problems and arguably three. First of all, it's in a similar pattern to the two masks ..., but it's not a mask. That's not a cycle. A cycle would be if they were all the same slot or maybe if they were three different slots. Having the masks work similarly makes sense. If all six rares worked similarly, that would make sense.

Second, the drawback is absurd. There already exist participation rares in IS that give +2 STR with the less than crippling disad of -1 AC. I don't see why the game needs yet another rare IS that gives +STR, but the disad could be -2 WIS or, if want to keep health related stuff, -3 HP as something vastly less crippling. Would make much more sense to do things like a cycle of IS that increased mental stats with the -1 AC disad or whatever.

Foggy Allure: Okay, bonus to mental attributes makes a lot of sense for things that go on face. Should be a theme across the slot. New slot, opportunity to really push mental stats. +2 CHA is currently nigh worthless, at most giving a FoP slot but usually not. The drawback is insanely negative. While would only make sense if dropped "Foggy" from the name, could just give +2 CHA and still be a bad choice. I don't expect CHA to ever really matter, but can pretend it will and give like +3 CHA with -1 INT for even more irrelevancy that also should be supereasy to code.

Sluggish Health: Far less downside than Foggy Allure, so, in isolation, it just seems to have too much downside, where like -1 REF would be more reasonable. Could be +2 CON, -1 DEX (or -2 DEX). I'd avoid masks increasing physical attributes all together, but I doubt that will ever happen both because there are so few things to modify in this game and we already have goofy stuff in head slot such as Stalker's Headband that increases an attribute not really head-like.

Can a relic charm be something else other than saves? I feel like the last few years there has been a lot of higher level tokens that are just adding to saves. It looks to me like the participation tokens that make that relic were more about damage reduction. Maybe that charm could be more focused on an overall damage reduction?

Looking at this a little further, I think each charm should be -3 to one type of damage. Then the relic should be -2 to all damage, except Eldridge and push.

I would love to see two more volunteer tokens. Another UR in the Cosmic set would be fantastic.

I'm not sure that Tome of Elder Lore will be very popular, especially as the only option. While it is universal and slotless, the currently proposed effect wouldn't be appreciated by many players.

Voidbane Pellet Pouch, however, is a great rare!

For simplicity of future design, would it make sense to have the Tome of Elder Lore just duplicate the UR Special ability for that year?

BasicBraining wrote: I'm not sure that Tome of Elder Lore will be very popular, especially as the only option. While it is universal and slotless, the currently proposed effect wouldn't be appreciated by many players.

+1 to this

The biggest problem IMO is the Standard Action requirement for an effect that's only so-so because it doesn't gain modifiers.
- If you make it a Free Action it would become at least universally somewhat useful (depending on the specific effects).
- If you make it a fully-fledged modifiable spell, that's potentially of great interest to casters though maybe not to other classes.

But also, it's yet another special effect that you have to design every year, when the Wonder, Eldritch & Special Effects already sometimes feel rushed/phoned in. I'm not sure what to recommend here except to ask, are you really sure you want to commit to designing another special effect every year?

David Zych wrote:

BasicBraining wrote: I'm not sure that Tome of Elder Lore will be very popular, especially as the only option. While it is universal and slotless, the currently proposed effect wouldn't be appreciated by many players.

+1 to this

The biggest problem IMO is the Standard Action requirement for an effect that's only so-so because it doesn't gain modifiers.
- If you make it a Free Action it would become at least universally somewhat useful (depending on the specific effects).
- If you make it a fully-fledged modifiable spell, that's potentially of great interest to casters though maybe not to other classes.

But also, it's yet another special effect that you have to design every year, when the Wonder, Eldritch & Special Effects already sometimes feel rushed/phoned in. I'm not sure what to recommend here except to ask, are you really sure you want to commit to designing another special effect every year?

Maybe make it the Tome of Elder Wonder and or Tome of Eldritch Lore, and have it use either the Wonder or Eldritch special effect each year. That way an additional special effect wouldn't be needed. Although this one sounds pretty easy to do, since it is simply adapting a different existing spell each year.

David Zych wrote:

BasicBraining wrote: I'm not sure that Tome of Elder Lore will be very popular, especially as the only option. While it is universal and slotless, the currently proposed effect wouldn't be appreciated by many players.

+1 to this

The biggest problem IMO is the Standard Action requirement for an effect that's only so-so because it doesn't gain modifiers.
- If you make it a Free Action it would become at least universally somewhat useful (depending on the specific effects).
- If you make it a fully-fledged modifiable spell, that's potentially of great interest to casters though maybe not to other classes.

But also, it's yet another special effect that you have to design every year, when the Wonder, Eldritch & Special Effects already sometimes feel rushed/phoned in. I'm not sure what to recommend here except to ask, are you really sure you want to commit to designing another special effect every year?

+1
During the ideas phase I suggested this:

Tome of Eldritch Lore
Slotless
Once per game, convert one attack or spell to Eldritch damage.

Which could easily be Elder Lore. The intent was to give a way to deal with monster damage resistance by making the damage Eldritch. A way to deal with damage resistance Is something that I feel a lot of players would want.

Grizwald wrote:

David Zych wrote:

BasicBraining wrote: I'm not sure that Tome of Elder Lore will be very popular, especially as the only option. While it is universal and slotless, the currently proposed effect wouldn't be appreciated by many players.

+1 to this

The biggest problem IMO is the Standard Action requirement for an effect that's only so-so because it doesn't gain modifiers.
- If you make it a Free Action it would become at least universally somewhat useful (depending on the specific effects).
- If you make it a fully-fledged modifiable spell, that's potentially of great interest to casters though maybe not to other classes.

But also, it's yet another special effect that you have to design every year, when the Wonder, Eldritch & Special Effects already sometimes feel rushed/phoned in. I'm not sure what to recommend here except to ask, are you really sure you want to commit to designing another special effect every year?

+1
During the ideas phase I suggested this:

Tome of Eldritch Lore
Slotless
Once per game, convert one attack or spell to Eldritch damage.

Which could easily be Elder Lore. The intent was to give a way to deal with monster damage resistance by making the damage Eldritch. A way to deal with damage resistance Is something that I feel a lot of players would want.

Would that be overpowered though? A monster scaled with significant damage resistance might be pretty easily beaten if everyone could get their best attack in completely avoiding the damage resistance.

As for the volunteer tokens. I would like to see them have a continuous effect rather a once per game effect, even if the power is a bit weaker.

David Zych wrote:

BasicBraining wrote: I'm not sure that Tome of Elder Lore will be very popular, especially as the only option. While it is universal and slotless, the currently proposed effect wouldn't be appreciated by many players.

+1 to this

The biggest problem IMO is the Standard Action requirement for an effect that's only so-so because it doesn't gain modifiers.
- If you make it a Free Action it would become at least universally somewhat useful (depending on the specific effects).
- If you make it a fully-fledged modifiable spell, that's potentially of great interest to casters though maybe not to other classes.

But also, it's yet another special effect that you have to design every year, when the Wonder, Eldritch & Special Effects already sometimes feel rushed/phoned in. I'm not sure what to recommend here except to ask, are you really sure you want to commit to designing another special effect every year?

I think this is fairly powerful even as a standard action because it is available to all classes. A coordinated party could use ten of these in specific kinds of rooms to a strong effect, but I feel that is conditional enough to not be overpowered.

As a long-time volunteer I find the volunteer tokens to be very interesting and I appreciate them compared to some recent offerings. The flavor of the UR feels like volunteers are able to tap into the abilities of the enemy they are portraying or the dungeon they helped build. The rare offers a unique power which is not powerful, but is very useful.