TOPIC: 2027 Treasure Token Notes Round 7 <= Final?

Thank you all for your continuing feedback. I appreciate your perspectives, and it is good to get the input of a variety of voices. I try my best to balance all your feedback and other concerns to craft these tokens for you. I updated the FAQ again with more info, so please check it out before asking a question here. Thanks for that!

Changes from last post:
-- We fixed the typo on the Homunculus tokens. Thanks!
-- We fixed the wrong power on the Bead of Hexed Boon.

I think we have a great set of 2027-2029 tokens here. I know they are a little different in some ways than in the past, but I think a little change here is a good thing.

Good image: truedungeon.com/files/Multi-Year-Graphicv4.jpg

Notes PDF: truedungeon.com/files/2027_Token_Notesv11.pdf

I don't understand why the Arcanum Hagstone is going to also require us to transmute the Bead of Hexed Boon. That seems much more expensive than the other Arcanum set pieces. Let's review those recipes:

Arcanum Shirt
4 URs
1 of each TG except Bar

Deathward Greaves
4 URs
1 of each TG except Bar

Ring of the Sacred Circle
5 1k reward tokens
1 of each TG except Bar

This new token is going to take:
3 URs
3 2k reward tokens
An unknown # of TGs

That seems out of whack for what you get, based on past recipes.

Pretty cool overall.

Bead of Hexed Boon
The bead adjustment seems a little off based on the current level of power vs the trade off.
Bead of Asgard is +4 to one score
Bead of Hexed Boon is +5 to one score and -2 saves

If this is the intended stat line, I would think going into eye slot with Lenses of Timestep as the first UR would make more sense but your still going from +5 -2 to +5 -6 so is +6 might be the correct value.

The UR path could also move to gloves for +5 damage -2 saves with gloves of Elder Horror, Focus +4, and +4 melee damage as another option. It would still be below the Gregor's Relic which is tied to 2 handers.

If you wanted to do a different stat line +4 to str, dex, con (pick 2) -2 saves seems at least different. It would basically be an improved stalker bead of skill with +2 stats -2 saves with flexibility.

If you didn't care about slot alignment at all, offhand has limited options and this could be an updated Orb of Might.

Transmute Path
The timing and tempo of transmuting the UR, than transmuting the Relic seems a little stressful. There was a lot of stress in Ring transmute this year and this transmute line means we will need to double transmute. If this is the intention, there needs to be a streamlined transmute path so it is one mailer instead of 2.

Slots
I do love the chaser concept and the patron path is awesome. I do +1 the fact that I don't want to feel the need to get an extra codex and grimoire and hagstones. If it is defined as a slot cool, if tokendb says they cant stack cool. We all carry enough tokens as is for in person runs.

If the bead is going to be part of the recipe for the Arcanum piece, then the recipe for it needs to be like just the 3 UR's or this is going to be the most expensive Arcanum piece ever to create, which I agree is going to cause another frenzy in TG's to create.

I also like the idea of moving the UR multi year out of the bead slot and into the gloves or eyes slot as well, one, to avoid it becoming just another Bead of Asgard but with a downside, and update the gloves/eyes slot for many builds, where things haven't really changed much in years. Updating those slots gives more builds interesting options, instead of crowding an already crowded bead slot for most people.

I will also add to consider not having the Bead as part of the recipe for the Arcanum Hagstone. First, if someone would like the Bead and want to make the Hagstone, then they have to buy 2 of each UR, which I think is too much. Second, a person will have to transmute the Bead, then follow up with a separate transmute for the Hagstone and they can't be done at the same time (unless in person).

Otherwise, I think the tokens are awesome!

jadziadax8 wrote: I don't understand why the Arcanum Hagstone is going to also require us to transmute the Bead of Hexed Boon. That seems much more expensive than the other Arcanum set pieces. Let's review those recipes:

Arcanum Shirt
4 URs
1 of each TG except Bar

Deathward Greaves
4 URs
1 of each TG except Bar

Ring of the Sacred Circle
5 1k reward tokens
1 of each TG except Bar

This new token is going to take:
3 URs
3 2k reward tokens
An unknown # of TGs

That seems out of whack for what you get, based on past recipes.

If the Hagstone was a Slotted Token I'd agree. However with it being Slotless I think it's fine.

Corey Pressler wrote: I will also add to consider not having the Bead as part of the recipe for the Arcanum Hagstone. First, if someone would like the Bead and want to make the Hagstone, then they have to buy 2 of each UR, which I think is too much. Second, a person will have to transmute the Bead, then follow up with a separate transmute for the Hagstone and they can't be done at the same time (unless in person).

Otherwise, I think the tokens are awesome!

I agree the bead should be removed from the hegstone recipe as well, mostly because it will be a easy to miss detail that will trip up most people that are not paying as much attention as us involved in token development are.

Thanks, Jeff!

I do appreciate that you gave all of the individual tokens value beyond just being ingredients for the transmutes! It is also nice that in every instance (other than monster tokens of course) you can equip at least one of the ingredient tokens as well as the transmuted token.

This will likely be the first time I'm not transmuting the Arcanum (and previously Eldritch) token. I usually try to do enough for my group plus maybe extras, but the fact that this year the Arcanum token is based on the $2K token instead of the UR or $1K token probably pushes it beyond my price range for the group. So I think Ring Con will be the final time my group travels to Carbondale/Marion for a TD event. Was the intent of making the Arcanum token $2K to reduce the attendance of the TD event by half? I'm totally OK with that, just curious.

I am OK also with the recipe for the Arcanum token being higher than previous Arcanum tokens, because this one is based on the $2K token instead of the $1K. It looks like an intentional shift to make the Arcanum token significantly more expensive and significantly more scarce. Actually, letting the individual slotless Hagstones stack with the transmuted Hagstone will result in even fewer transmutes because a lot of people will keep a set of untransmuted Hagstones in addition to the transmuted one. Maybe there will only be around 1/3 as many Arcanum Hagstones as there will be Sacred Rings of the Circle.

Maybe token sales have increased to the point where the old method wasn't working anymore because too many Arcanum tokens were getting transmuted and they weren't pulling enough trade item tokens out of circulation.

Thanks!
Mike

Mike Steele wrote: Thanks, Jeff!

I do appreciate that you gave all of the individual tokens value beyond just being ingredients for the transmutes! It is also nice that in every instance (other than monster tokens of course) you can equip at least one of the ingredient tokens as well as the transmuted token.

This will likely be the first time I'm not transmuting the Arcanum (and previously Eldritch) token. I usually try to do enough for my group plus maybe extras, but the fact that this year the Arcanum token is based on the $2K token instead of the UR or $1K token probably pushes it beyond my price range for the group. So I think Ring Con will be the final time my group travels to Carbondale/Marion for a TD event. Was the intent of making the Arcanum token $2K to reduce the attendance of the TD event by half? I'm totally OK with that, just curious.

I am OK also with the recipe for the Arcanum token being higher than previous Arcanum tokens, because this one is based on the $2K token instead of the $1K. It looks like an intentional shift to make the Arcanum token significantly more expensive and significantly more scarce. Actually, letting the individual slotless Hagstones stack with the transmuted Hagstone will result in even fewer transmutes because a lot of people will keep a set of untransmuted Hagstones in addition to the transmuted one. Maybe there will only be around 1/3 as many Arcanum Hagstones as there will be Sacred Rings of the Circle.

Maybe token sales have increased to the point where the old method wasn't working anymore because too many Arcanum tokens were getting transmuted and they weren't pulling enough trade item tokens out of circulation.

Thanks!
Mike

“ Note: We will not decide this until AFTER Ring Con, but it is most likely that all attendees at True Dungeon Con 2029 will be required to craft an Ioun Stone of Fearsome Foes -- the $1K multi-year token.”

The ioun stone will likely be the 2029 con token per other thread.

That said I will continue to agree that Hagstone is way too expensive based on the precedent the other pieces have been. Doubling the demand by making them stackable and slotless shouldn’t be happening and the bead shouldn’t be part of the recipe unless we are also adding its effect but that seems way too powerful for a slotless token.

jacob717 wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Thanks, Jeff!

I do appreciate that you gave all of the individual tokens value beyond just being ingredients for the transmutes! It is also nice that in every instance (other than monster tokens of course) you can equip at least one of the ingredient tokens as well as the transmuted token.

This will likely be the first time I'm not transmuting the Arcanum (and previously Eldritch) token. I usually try to do enough for my group plus maybe extras, but the fact that this year the Arcanum token is based on the $2K token instead of the UR or $1K token probably pushes it beyond my price range for the group. So I think Ring Con will be the final time my group travels to Carbondale/Marion for a TD event. Was the intent of making the Arcanum token $2K to reduce the attendance of the TD event by half? I'm totally OK with that, just curious.

I am OK also with the recipe for the Arcanum token being higher than previous Arcanum tokens, because this one is based on the $2K token instead of the $1K. It looks like an intentional shift to make the Arcanum token significantly more expensive and significantly more scarce. Actually, letting the individual slotless Hagstones stack with the transmuted Hagstone will result in even fewer transmutes because a lot of people will keep a set of untransmuted Hagstones in addition to the transmuted one. Maybe there will only be around 1/3 as many Arcanum Hagstones as there will be Sacred Rings of the Circle.

Maybe token sales have increased to the point where the old method wasn't working anymore because too many Arcanum tokens were getting transmuted and they weren't pulling enough trade item tokens out of circulation.

Thanks!
Mike

“ Note: We will not decide this until AFTER Ring Con, but it is most likely that all attendees at True Dungeon Con 2029 will be required to craft an Ioun Stone of Fearsome Foes -- the $1K multi-year token.”

The ioun stone will likely be the 2029 con token per other thread.

That said I will continue to agree that Hagstone is way too expensive based on the precedent the other pieces have been. Doubling the demand by making them stackable and slotless shouldn’t be happening and the bead shouldn’t be part of the recipe unless we are also adding its effect but that seems way too powerful for a slotless token.

Hahaha, thanks! Ignore everything I said (well, most of it at least).

Hi Jeff!

I have a question about this sentence "Another Chaser 20-pc set each year will give you a chance to make a powerful Relic."

What Relic in this set is made from that 20 piece Chaser set? The only two Relics I see beyond the multi-year tokens are the Charm of Unity (which you already gave us the recipes for) and the Greater Arcane Necklace of Baubles, which is part of the UR/Relic/Legendary transmute path.

I do think it is neat that there will be both a 40 piece and 20 piece chaser set in the treasure boxes this year. Maybe that could result in fewer URs in the treasure boxes? I think if people got fewer URs out of treasure boxes that might increase demand and prices for the URs in the token orders.

Thanks!
Mike

Jeff,

There’s a lot going on in this update and I’m not sure all of it’s good.

We’re getting 5 new slots in 2027: Codex, Face, Familiar, Grimoire, and Homunculus. This is a lot of new slots to design things for and fill. Several of these slots seem very similar to each other. Codex and Tomes are both types of books, Familiar and Homunculus are both helper creatures. I would propose adding a Tome slot the includes books, codex’s, grimoires, and tomes. Start with 3 or 4 slots. I know this would be most difficult for Casters at first because all the existing tomes are caster items. After there’s a tome slot, we can start making book for other classes. For the helpers, I would make them one slot instead of two. Making some choices for characters is a good thing.

We’re getting 60 chase items a year: 40 for the Grimoire, 20 for the Relic. In 2025 my group of 7 players get enough Runes to make 3.5 Rune Giants by running each VTD once and lots of trading. Trying to collect these tokens is fun and a community project. If we’re looking at collecting 60 chase tokens, we will need to increase how much we play, or the drop rate will need to change.

We’re going to have 6 multiyear transmutes happen all in the same year. We are dealing with having several multiyear transmutes be available right now and it is doing some wild things to the prices. Part of it is people are trying to get things ready for Ring Con deadlines. Having warning that it’s going to happen again in 3 years is not encouraging. I would suggest having a set of 3-year, 4-year, and 5-year transmutes to help stager the completion. I also don’t like needing a multi-year transmute in the next Arcanum piece, as that adds in an extra step to the transmute process.

We’re getting 6th level characters. I feel like this is going to take more time than token design does. What spells are casters going to get? Will any lower-level spells get changed out? Will people get new abilities? How will all the new class things interact with each other? What will the character cards look like? There will be some back and forth to determine the correct number so that 6th level isn’t completely overpowered. Plus, all the development that’s going to be needed. All of that takes time and effort to work through.

I do like having a roadmap of what’s to come over the next few years. It can help with planning and design. But there are some bumps in the road that need to be addressed or thought about.