TOPIC: 2027 Ultra Rares FINAL - Almost!

Due to some changes with the Multi-Year program, we had to remove the Belt of Kthala. It was changed into the Ring of Kthala. So...here is the new FINAL contact sheet of the 2027 Ultra Rares. Thanks all!

EDIT: URL updated to avoid issues with browser caches -- and because I fixed an error.

truedungeon.com/files/27UltraRareb.jpg

One last try

The void canon is still a problem.

-It still has a 40 on it, which will be referenced in every future design cycle.
-it still has a significant outlier average damage, even with 2 stuns
-Stun is likely over rated as a down side. There will be many times where you get "stunned" but the room is over so there is no real down side.
-It still has bard on it. Similar weapons, such as the +2 boom stick do not include bard.

I suggest [3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 30] with the stun on the 30 to keep it closer to existing URs. It will still be the best, but not by 50% anymore.

Thanks, Jeff! Spirit Pet Owl still seems pretty powerful. Does it get +3 for all owls that hit (including itself) or just all other owls? If it's all other owls, maybe change the wording to
"+3 damage for each other owl..."

Endgame wrote: One last try

The void canon is still a problem.

-It still has a 40 on it, which will be referenced in every future design cycle.
-it still has a significant outlier average damage, even with 2 stuns
-Stun is likely over rated as a down side. There will be many times where you get "stunned" but the room is over so there is no real down side.
-It still has bard on it. Similar weapons, such as the +2 boom stick do not include bard.

I suggest [3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 30] with the stun on the 30 to keep it closer to existing URs. It will still be the best, but not by 50% anymore.

+.5
I agree that the 40 is an issue and will keep being an issue going forward. I think if it was a 30 it would be better.

I'm ok with Bard being on here. If they want to stun themselves and stop the music, that seems ok.

Grizwald wrote:

Endgame wrote: One last try

The void canon is still a problem.

-It still has a 40 on it, which will be referenced in every future design cycle.
-it still has a significant outlier average damage, even with 2 stuns
-Stun is likely over rated as a down side. There will be many times where you get "stunned" but the room is over so there is no real down side.
-It still has bard on it. Similar weapons, such as the +2 boom stick do not include bard.

I suggest [3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 30] with the stun on the 30 to keep it closer to existing URs. It will still be the best, but not by 50% anymore.

+.5
I agree that the 40 is an issue and will keep being an issue going forward. I think if it was a 30 it would be better.

I'm ok with Bard being on here. If they want to stun themselves and stop the music, that seems ok.

Personally I'd prefer more Treasure Box exclusive tokens were used like these chase tokens, and the treasure boxes had fewer URs and Relics. I think the URs in the treasure boxes in particular are at a volume now that they're undercutting token sales. I think it would be better for True Dungeon if nearly all the URs came from token purchases.

Mike Steele wrote: Personally I'd prefer more Treasure Box exclusive tokens were used like these chase tokens, and the treasure boxes had fewer URs and Relics. I think the URs in the treasure boxes in particular are at a volume now that they're undercutting token sales. I think it would be better for True Dungeon if nearly all the URs came from token purchases.

I disagree and the facts don’t support this conclusion. Per Mark D’s tracker, in 2025 out of 34,673 treasure pulls in 2025 recorded in his tracker, 109 were URs, and 270 were “UR or better”. That’s 1 in 125 pulls. Many of these random pulls won’t be useful in your build. I seriously doubt treasure at this level is undercutting token sales.

Speaking from my own experience, the opposite is true. In total, I’ve pulled 1 Relic (at GenCon) and 3 URs (1 in a 10 pack, and 2 in treasure). 2 of the 3 URs I pulled were not useful in any of my builds. I guarantee you that treasure pulls in no way negatively impact my token purchases. On the contrary, the relic I pulled was the Trilliant which inspired me to increase my token spend in order to do my first Legendary transmute.

Scott Kwiker wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Personally I'd prefer more Treasure Box exclusive tokens were used like these chase tokens, and the treasure boxes had fewer URs and Relics. I think the URs in the treasure boxes in particular are at a volume now that they're undercutting token sales. I think it would be better for True Dungeon if nearly all the URs came from token purchases.

I disagree and the facts don’t support this conclusion. Per Mark D’s tracker, in 2025 out of 34,673 treasure pulls in 2025 recorded in his tracker, 109 were URs, and 270 were “UR or better”. That’s 1 in 125 pulls. Many of these random pulls won’t be useful in your build. I seriously doubt treasure at this level is undercutting token sales.

Speaking from my own experience, the opposite is true. In total, I’ve pulled 1 Relic (at GenCon) and 3 URs (1 in a 10 pack, and 2 in treasure). 2 of the 3 URs I pulled were not useful in any of my builds. I guarantee you that treasure pulls in no way negatively impact my token purchases. On the contrary, the relic I pulled was the Trilliant which inspired me to increase my token spend in order to do my first Legendary transmute.

+1

The data wins out.

John Ohlinger (Salsa John) wrote:

Scott Kwiker wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Personally I'd prefer more Treasure Box exclusive tokens were used like these chase tokens, and the treasure boxes had fewer URs and Relics. I think the URs in the treasure boxes in particular are at a volume now that they're undercutting token sales. I think it would be better for True Dungeon if nearly all the URs came from token purchases.

I disagree and the facts don’t support this conclusion. Per Mark D’s tracker, in 2025 out of 34,673 treasure pulls in 2025 recorded in his tracker, 109 were URs, and 270 were “UR or better”. That’s 1 in 125 pulls. Many of these random pulls won’t be useful in your build. I seriously doubt treasure at this level is undercutting token sales.

Speaking from my own experience, the opposite is true. In total, I’ve pulled 1 Relic (at GenCon) and 3 URs (1 in a 10 pack, and 2 in treasure). 2 of the 3 URs I pulled were not useful in any of my builds. I guarantee you that treasure pulls in no way negatively impact my token purchases. On the contrary, the relic I pulled was the Trilliant which inspired me to increase my token spend in order to do my first Legendary transmute.

+1

The data wins out.

We crunched the numbers on a thread awhile back. Between the conventions and VTD, 1 out of 125 treasure pulls worked out to a ton of URs. I don't recall the exact percentage, but I think it was roughly around 30% of the total URs? I think that is a significant impact, and I do think that URs in token orders would be in higher demand if the overall supply of URs was lower - by reducing them in the treasure boxes.

Those are rough estimates of course, but I'm sure True Dungeon folks have the exact numbers.

If they are currently at 1 out of 125 then they have been reduced somewhat already, because they used to be roughly 1 out of 100 I think. Hopefully that can gradually (or not gradually) continue to go down.

1 out of 125 was everything “UR and above” (270/34K) and includes a bunch of other stuff. Just URs was 109/34K.

Someone who does 10 runs a year (say, spending ~$1000 on tickets) and has invested in max treasure (a big investment representing a minority of players) in their collection is pulling 270 tokens. I’m really not seeing how pulling a couple of good tokens (maybe 1 UR) over the whole season is negatively impacting sales. Pulling cool stuff is part of the experience and incents me to play more and potentially craft more.

Those are valid points of course. There are people that get a LOT more than 270 treasure pulls per year however.

I'm just tossing that suggestion out there for the powers that be to consider, as they have the actual numbers. If they think it's a "not broken, don't fix it" situation I'm totally OK with that.

I have a ton of Pulls each year that I don't report. I know others do to. My observation as a long time player is that the Treasure Boxes are more juiced now then they were in the past. Maybe I'm wrong. But I will say this, years ago you couldn't come by a UR for much under $100 on the secondary market, or a Legendary for under 1K. That's definitely changed. So less of my $$ goes to Token purchases directly from TD because it's much cheaper to buy them on the secondary market. More supply then demand. Pretty simple. Where the "supply" is coming from can be debated.

Rob F wrote: I have a ton of Pulls each year that I don't report. I know others do to. My observation as a long time player is that the Treasure Boxes are more juiced now then they were in the past. Maybe I'm wrong. But I will say this, years ago you couldn't come by a UR for much under $100 on the secondary market, or a Legendary for under 1K. That's definitely changed. So less of my $$ goes to Token purchases directly from TD because it's much cheaper to buy them on the secondary market. More supply then demand. Pretty simple. Where the "supply" is coming from can be debated.

Exactly, well put.

If supply is exceeding demand, then the only way to reduce the supply other than reducing token sales is to have fewer URs in treasure boxes.