TOPIC: Token Price Guide (v23) Posted

All,

During GenCon Indy and since, I have compiled trades and sales from a number of sources and incorportated those numbers into the Price Guide. The most notable addition to the guide include the Ultra Rares, which were somewhat difficult to price but I think this is a good starting point. Prices are sure to fluctuate from this point as more transactions take place.

www.truedungeon.com/true/TD_Tokens_Priceguide.pdf

So, again, please continue to let me know as you complete trades and I will integrate those values appropriately.

Thanks to everyones help (especially Raven) for input into the Guide.

-Douglas

Good work Douglas...

Only eyebrow raiser is the GP prices on the gems...

I got my 500 Emerald for 600GP and most of the ones I saw floating around were going for 100GP or so over the printed value...have they really inflated that much???

And I would think that there may be some tweek needed to the GP to $$$ equation (mainly on the Ultra-Rares) as we are seeing bigger dollars being pulled in on some of those items which either skews the equation somewhat or makes GPs much less valued when getting URs. (Or it is simply that people do not have the gold or sufficient items to make up the value in GP)

Wow! I really like how you have it set up to reflect the values of tokens from different runs and also listing if a character can use a token or not. Very thorough! Excellent work.

Very helpful Doug. Finally, I have some idea what the purples are worth.

Yes, gems were difficult to price. One one hand, they have a GP value already attached to them. On the other hand, the Sapphire sold for more than $45 on eBay. :shock: Other bids were $44, $34, and $32.

Working backwards, $45 could buy you almost 5 bags of tokens worth ~1500gp in value. So its clear that right now, across the board, collectors are placing a high premium on these UR tokens.

Gary, if you got the Emerald for 600gp, you got a great deal!

As for the GP/$ ratio, this is set by the cost of current bags sold and the average value of those bags. I think people just don't have the GP resources to "buy" the URs.

If there are any other questions or comments, please let me know.

-Douglas

at gencon full plate was selling in the forge at anywher 800-900 gp

And elixirs of life for 1000

Deepends on when you were buying. First night everything was just going for list price and there was plenty of it. I picked up a pair of gauntlets, full plate, and a quarterstaff +1 for like 750

I have a follow-up question...

Looking at the 500GP Emerald as an example...1000 GP equates to a little over $30...but would anyone sell 1000 GP for $30? I know I wouldn't.

Douglas - would you post or send me the data you have for the UR Gems that gave you the numbers for guide 23? As well could I see the GP to $$$ factors for each item?

I just can't believe people are paying double in gold for something like those UR gems. I think there has to be a GP to $$$ adjustment for these Ultra Rares...from 33gp to the $1 to something more like 12gp to the $1.

This would make the Gems roughly
300GP Ruby - 400GP - or $33
400GP Sapp - 550GP - or $45 - closer to what was really paid on eBay
500GP Emer - 700GP - or $58 - closer in gold to what I paid at INDY and closer to typical gem buy-up margines (I think).

This 12 to 1 might also be close on other UR items...like the +1 Ring - as that says 1300GP which is decent - but only $39.50... more than half what they have gone for on eBay. Using 12 to 1 the 1300 would yield about $110 which is high - but closer to the two bids around 80. (Maybe this item is more like 14-1...???

Just trying to help...as the URs are the only eyebrow raiser I have seen with the guide to date...

But now that I look at the Very Rares...it is strange that a RED would not command more than $10 in most cases...as a bag of tokens is $10.

A person wanting to pay cash for Elven Boots would do better looking to buy them at guide which is only $5...IF they could find someone selling for that price - which I doubt. Same goes for a scroll of Cure Light wounds selling for less than $4??? Something seems off here.

There are really two issues.

First, the GP to $ ratio.

And second, the relative GP value.

First, for the GP ratio.

A) Each token has value relative to eachother. In other words for all tokens there is a ratio of (Token A)/(Token that is some value regardless of $ or GP. This ratio depends on relative trades. In other words, Gauntlets for an Elixir. Who had to put in more, how much, what were the value of those tokens, etc.

When the GPs (e.g. 1gp, 2gp) themselves are "mapped" if you will, then the value of each of the tokens is computable based on that ratio with the GP. This gives a GP value for each of the tokens.

C) Given a GP value for each token, statistics are used to compute the Average value per toen bag. Based on current values relative to the GP, this total value is 330GP.

D) Each Token bag is sold for $10. Assuming they do not run out and are always available for $10, this gives a ratio of 33GP/$. This means that you can (on average) sell 33GP worth of tokens for $1 and vice versa. Very Rares (on average) make up HALF of the value of each Token Bag. So it wouldn't make sense for a VR to have an average value of $10. You do get other tokens afterall. While I know that commons are basically worthless to those that have 50+ bags, they still DO in fact have value for the masses.

So having said that, lets look at your ratio and what would happen if that reflected reality.

500GP Emerald for 700GP or $58.

So a person could either buy an Emerald for $58 or 700GP. If the person instead purchased 6 token bags, on average they would get 2000gp worth of tokens (and 6 chances to get the good VRs that are over $10). In other words, they could trade the tokens for GP (basically liquidate), get the emerald and still have 1300GP left over. Or, lets assume the Emerald holder wants items, not GP. The bag-buyer trades his random VRs for say Plate and Gauntlets worth 1000gp, still has 1000gp left over and trades to the Emerald-holder for more than he is asking.

If you make the argument that the bag-holder can't trade his commons, rares, for VRs, then this is the argument to lower their respective values or increase the VR values, NOT to change the ratio. But again, we must all keep in mind that each of us values tokens differently.

In an active economy, assets can be liquidated for their value. Given the GP/$ ratio, if the values of the VRs, Rares, and Commons are captured correctly, then you can determine the UR values in both GP and $ in two ways. By looking at GP valued trades for the URs and by looking at the sale value of the URs.

So, the only basis for a different ratio is changing the values of all of the tokens that are being sold relative to the GP.

Finally, with a ratio of 12 to 1, the AVERAGE Very Rare would be worth like $14. Why would anyone buy the tokens individually? Just by Token Bags, sell the VRs, buy more bags, rinse and repeat.

This is a good discussion though and I am glad you brought up those points.

-Douglas

All I have to say is that I am very glad this isn't one of the guide I got to write.
And Douglas, tons of respect for all the work and thought you put into your guide!

How about this:

500gp token = 1000 (100% markup)
400gp token = 800 (100% markup)
300gp token = 600 (100% markup)
200gp token = 210 (5% markup)

So just because the 300gp Ruby is a PURP - it gets a 100% markup?

I can understand such a mark-up for CASH money...as it is something that usually can't be bought...but saying that the 200gp gem is only getting +5% in GP and the 300gp gem is getting 100% in GP is a tad over the edge...

Let's look at it this way, using the logic of the average player does not have 50+ bags... Who has 1000 gp (liquid OR goods) to buy an Emerald with??? Not many...who has 5 +1 heavy maces, or 10 potions of Cure Lt. Wounds, or an Elixer of life and Ogre Gauntlets to trade for this PURP??? AND there is the risk that the holder wants things you just don't have - thus you could spend $140+ trying to get the right reds...so Cash becomes the best way to straight up buy...

So on the flip side, $58 could buy it up...- well I wouldn't pay that - but we have seen it on eBay...and buying 6 bags is far from a guarantee that you get items the holder wants...