TOPIC: Treasure Token Price Guide (v27)

A new version of the Price Guide has been posted. It reflects recent trades posted in forums and via email as well as sales at Gen Con So Cal.

www.truedungeon.com/true/TD_Tokens_Priceguide.pdf

Feedback, as always, is welcomed.

Thanks for the update - always glad for the latest information. I remain slightly surprised at the high premium on green gems, but they are the same as v25, so they must still be fitting reality. I am delighted to see how many of the prices have remained stable, even from before to after a TD con, indicating that the economy of TD is settling in, adjusting mostly based upon an improved public understanding of the function of given items, rather than just speculation (The UR's being the most prominent example). I've also seen more and more people willing to trade in gold and gems, which indicates the currency is being trusted as something that will retain its value - a very good thing for the game, and an excellent sign of a dedicated fanbase. Looks good to me.

How hard would it be to add another column for % change in value? I'm sorta curious in what went up and what went down, sorta like a stock ticker.

Sell 5 tokens of platemail! Buy gauntlets on margin!

I think the fact that the shops were sometimes selling ultra rares for large sums of gold has certainly made people more willing to accept gold for trade. I know between a couple of my runs, the shopkeeper had a girdle of giant strength for 1500 gold (or more--how the memory fades). I was so close but couldn't round up the remainder until it was too late. It made me wish I had accepted some of those gold offers made Pre-GenCon.

Aye, the shop accepting gold is a very good thing for maintaining the stability of the TD economy.

For those interested in percentage changes, here are the changes from Version 25 to Version 27:

Commons

Bone Map Case - 25 to 5 (-80%)
50 foot rope - 20 to 10 (-50%)
Waterskin - 10 to 5 (-50%)
Steel Flask - 10 to 5 (-50%)
Flint and Steel - 15 to 10 (-33.33%)
Small Steel Mirror - 10 to 5 (-50%)
Grappling Hook - 25 to 10 (-60%)
Hammer and Spike - 25 to 10 (-60%)

Rares

Chain (+5 AC) - 40 to 35 (-12.50%)
Banded (+6 AC) - 30 to 25 (-16.67%)

Very Rares

Elixer of Life - 500 to 600 (+20%)

Ultra Rares

+2 Shortsword - 1000 to 1400 (+40%)
+2 Longsword - 1600 to 1900 (+18.75%)
+1 Full Plate (+9 AC) - 1500 to 1800 (+20%)
Ring of Evasion - 1200 to 1500 (+25%)
Cloak of Displacement - 2500 to 1500 (-40%)

Promos

Bag of Holding - 150 to 100 (-33.33%)
Mug of Wisdom - 200 to 100 (-50%)
Mug of Beauty - 200 to 100 (-50%)
Mug of Brawling - 300 to 125 (-58.33%)
Mug of Courage - 250 to 110 (-56%)

The obvious trend is towards a decrease in value of easily available gear and mid-range armor. The ability to readily acquire common gear from token bags, or simply find it lying around, decreases its value in trades. This gear may also be affected by a perceived lack of usefulness, which is similar to what has affected the promo-tokens. The ability of many classes to wear superior armor, which over the last couple years has become more widely accessible to the public, reduces the target market for mid-range armor significantly.

A collector's market combines with a drive by returning players to "be the best they can be" to drive the prices on upper level arms and armor upward. The most notable fall from grace also occured within the upper level ranks however, with the revelation that the Cloak of Displacement is not as unbalancingly superior as some folks previously thought it was. Despite its 40% fall however, it remains among the most valuable tokens in circulation.

Gem premiums remain constant from v25 to v27, powered in part by speculation that gems may have uses beyond cash in future True Dungeon events. A solid showing for common gear in the adventures at an upcoming convention may return strength to those tokens, but until such time, they are likely to remain a dicey investment. For the time being, it seems that Potions and Scrolls both remain solid options for those who wish to retain flexibility without losing value in their portfolio, while those looking for a high-stakes venture should look into the ever-changing field of magical weaponry.

Another thing I want to point out is that I (TD) may have been responsible for the downward drive for gear. When I had to make up a pricing guideline for the shop at SoCal, I used the most current price guide as a reference, but could not see making players trade as much gold value for a small steel mirror as they paid for basic weaponry. So to make the trading in SoCal easier on the players with few tokens at hand, given they often had to equip an entire party, I deflated the prices of common goods.

The original prices (I think) were mainly inflated due to their somewhat rare nature/difficulty to find for collectors. This drove the price upwards, out of the range I believe common goods should cost in the game environment. The tokens have created a micro economy, which is very interesting to observe, and I carefully weighed the deflation of prices for goods downward against what it might do to the stability of the collector prices, before setting the prices I did in the shops.

Not that I want to be the Alan Greenspan of the TD token world, but there you have it...


Dave

Wow. Dave and Evan, I couldn't have said it better myself.

I would like to add that there could potentially be other small fluctuations in price from other tokens however, a large subset of the data comes from bartering so fluctuations can be hidden inside offseting changes.

For example,

Tokens A and B are traded for Tokens C and D. If A goes up by the amount that B goes down, then this fluctuation can be hidden and so forth.

The changes in this version were more from clear trends in price changes seen in trades sent to me and those done at Indy. Due to the non-consumable nature of basic gear, the demand was noticably and substantially lower for groups that had any tokens. Coupled with the fact that gear, with some limited exceptions, has not yet been fully incorporated into the mechanics of the TD rooms.

Thanks for the feedback guys.

I find gear more useful than a lot of crap. Well, certain gear anyway. I'd go through the dungeon without a lot of tokens but I'm always bringing a farging rope with me. A lot of the other crap is useless because it simply dosen't come into play. Look at the hammer in spike. The general use for that is barring a door...yet it's just not a feasable use in TD. Look at that room with the moving wall. If I said I was going to use the H&S to wedge it, it's not like I could get extra time in the room or defeat it without having to open the lock or disarm the trap or whatever. Spikes could be used as pointy things (but there are plenty of pointy items) and hammers can be used as bashy things (but there are plenty of bashy items). The rope on the other hand is infinitely useful since it seems there's always some sort of falling possibility or tying things or reaching things, etc. Compare both of these to things that are even more worthless like waterskins.

Now, I can see uses for a waterskin and a flask, but it would have others without tokens yelling about fairness perhaps. A means of the token rich getting richer. Say there's a pool and if you bring out a 'waterskin' full of the liquid at the end it's exchanged for a potion token. That's about the only way it could be run, since it's not like you could ever make a waterskin a necessary item for task completion. Since TD dosen't seem to be going in the direction of making gear that useful and valuable, it's going to be a case of a lot of functional value vs none.

The first time I saw "Hammer and Spike" I thought of climbing gear, and asked myself "Why are they adding a hammer and spike, if they already have a grappling hook?" The answer that immediately came to me is the possibility of Vampires appearing in a future dungeon. It would be a great way to avoid a combat, if you can stake a vamp before it rises by using the hammer to drive the spike through its heart. A waterskin, sliced open with a dagger, could be used to create a strong leather binding to hold together two puzzle pieces, or protect yourself from an electric shock. If you just slit the top of the skin open, leaving the other three sides connected, you've got a bag for carrying something that could be dangerous to hold in your hand. Got an acid-spitting beast you've just slain? Collect acid from its gland in a steel flask, and use dissolve something that is blocking your escape from the room. How about fighting a ghost or entity of some sort? Use the command spell to order it into the flask, and then seal the top!

I think most of the good uses of gear are ones that are not written into the "official" solution of the room. They are things that have to be improv'd on the spot, provide alternate solutions, and take a DM judgement call on whether or not they'll work. Honestly, that's how the rope is used as well, it's just that most of us have an easier time seeing an obvious use for a rope than a perhaps less obvious use for something like a flask.

It is an interesting issue; the role of gear in rooms. I think the fine line that needs to be walked is incorporating gear into rooms and giving gear function while still not REQUIRING gear to solve a room. I think gear should be incorporated as "bonus" or supplamental to the function of a room. For example, water from a healing fountain can be filled into flasks or waterskins (i.e. exchanged with the DM for a potion of cure minor wounds). Or lighting an unlit torch against the wall with Flint and Steel to make a dark room brighter. Or using a rope/grappling hook to climb up to a "bonus" ledge.
The moving wall room seemed like a perfect place to implement a use for Hammer and Spike for quick thinking parties, even if it only granted an extra 30 seconds. Maybe next time.

Dequils,

I just got around to checking out the new guide, and I have a question. Several items have a * after the name, but I can't find anywhere it tells you what the * means.

Please, call me Douglas.

Ah, the '*'. It denotes different versions of those tokens. The Greatsword, for example, has two number configurations 12345678910 and 2234567899 depending on the printing. The Quarterstaff was also printed as a Quartersraff.

It was something I added in a while ago and looking back, it needs to be changed. The +2 greatsword does not have multiple versions.

I'll add a note in the next version.

Thanks for the catch!
-Douglas