TOPIC: Encouraging Future Sales of Tokens Via Auctions

I was thinking of this, and there are several ways to encourage strong token sales each year (which it seems is necessary for the financial health of True Dungeon).  One way is offering incentives, like the Golden Ticket Package, while another is making significant changes to the token makeup each year, with a bunch of new tokens added each year (like Elven Chain this year) that collectors want, and yet another is the Combo Tokens, which encourages players to get complete sets of tokens each year because they don't know which tokens will be needed in future Combos.  <br /><br />The one I was thinking about in this thread is the Artisan Token Auctions.  They will certainly do a good job of relieving 18 people (probably less with the likelihood of proxy bidders) of a lot of gold, but does that really relieve the token glut for the majority of collectors, that might discourage those collectors from making big purchases in future years?  I was thinking of this because, while I'm certainly not one of the biggest token buyers, I now have pretty much all the non-Purple tokens I'll ever need, and it'll be much harder for me to justify paying hundreds of dollars for tokens each year in the future if I'm just getting more and more of all the tokens I already have - and I'm probably not the only one thinking that.  <br /><br />Many people have pretty much all the Very Rares, Rares, and Commons they'll ever need, so the main incentive for buying future tokens is to try to get that Ultra-Rare, while at the same time they are getting yet more multiples of the tokens they already have.  I can think of two changes to the auctions that might help thin out peoples token collections, which would help encourage them to buy more tokens in the future.<br /><br />One is to allow people to bid using ALL tokens, not just gold and gems.  They could use the price guide prices on gold values for the items, either at full guide value or possibly decremented by a percentage (like say they can be used for 75% of the guide price of non-gold/gem tokens for auctions) to still give gold and gems a premium value.  This would give people an avenue to get rid of their excess tokens each year, freeing them up to buy lots more tokens the next year without worrying about what they'll do with all the large quantities of multiples they'll likely get, that they can't really trade because everyone else has all those multiples also.  It could be streamlined by only allowing Very Rares and Rares, or by just giving a standard trade-in value for commons (like 3 GP per common).  <br /><br />The other way (and these two ways work well together) is to increase the number of auctions.  Say, for instance, having all 18 Artisan tokens each night for three nights, and possibly auctioning off a Purple set as well (maybe 1/3 of the set each night) - one more of each purple in circulation wouldn't really throw make much difference, but it would add a lot of spice to the auctions.  Tripling the amount of Artisan Tokens in the auction would allow many more people the opportunity to get one, it would give one or two enterprising people a reasonable chance to eventually complete a set of them, and it would get a LOT of tokens out of more peoples collections.<br /><br />I think the combination of these two - increasing the number of auctions each year and allowing ALL tokens to be used in auctions, would help True Dungeon financially because it would encourage people to buy more tokens each year because they wouldn't have a glut of tokens, and they would know they could use any extra tokens they did get in future auctions.  And of course, all the other motivating factors mentioned in the first paragraph (and others I didn't mention) could still be used.  <br /><br />Of course this would end up with Jeff having thousands of tokens on his hands, but one thing he could do with them is add them to the treasure chests and allow groups more random token picks from the chest as they go through the dungeon, which would really increase the perceived value of each dungeon run and the amount of fun groups have in the dungeon, and afterwards as they sort the treasure.  <br /><br />Those are just some thoughts to spark discussion, and for Jeff & the Board of Directors to consider.  I'd enjoy hearing everyone's thoughts on the matter. 

  If you do that, though, GP/Gems go back to being essentially worthless... with the loss of the stores within the tavern, a token has only value for (a) what it can do, or (b) what it can get you in trade... without any items that are purchsaseable strictly by GP/Gems (even with combo tokens requiring some GP/Gems) GP/Gems are nearly valueless.. <br /><br /> 

Kinda agree with George here...Gold and Gems need an exclusive use...otherwise they are the worst token created.<br /><br />However, being someone with a glut of commons...It would be good for there to be some way to unload commons for GOLD - The only problem - the keeper of TONS of gold is TD - and maybe the only entity willing to take commons for gold is TD.  Maybe TD would buy back commons at a set price (forget guide...just set a single price for every common...KISS) BUT this gets TD back in the token trading business and even though we are just talking gold here...I don't think Jeff wants to put the resources, cost, manpower etc into this.

And, the other issue with using items to bid is that, frankly, the guide is just that... a guide.  Not everyone uses the guide for their transactions (including myself).  I can regular sell an Elixir for 700+ GP, depending on the trade.  So, if I offered one to bid on an item, I would expect it be worth what I can trade it for, not what the guide says.

In order for the gold economy to thrive, there needs to be a steady flow of it.  Just counting on people to get it in their bags probably won't be enough long term.  (Those us of who have been buying tokens for a few years happen to have a good stash of it, but once we spend it all on the auctions and combo tokens the majority of it will be out of circulation.)<br /><br />I like the idea of trading in the glut of unwanted commons, but agree that (a) it would create more work for TD and (b) there really isn't any trade off for TD.  (They'd just end up printing more GP than commons since they'd recirculate.)<br /><br />I *really* like the idea of being able to bid on purps - in fact, I'm sure something like the Maces would bring a huge turnout from the token faithful.  (I personally would be dumping everything I could scrape up into a UR auction.  The jewelry is cool, but being able to get a piece of equipment I could use in future runs would be fantatsic.)

<br />Kinda agree with George here...Gold and Gems need an exclusive use...otherwise they are the worst token created.<br /><br />However, being someone with a glut of commons...It would be good for there to be some way to unload commons for GOLD - The only problem - the keeper of TONS of gold is TD - and maybe the only entity willing to take commons for gold is TD.  Maybe TD would buy back commons at a set price (forget guide...just set a single price for every common...KISS) BUT this gets TD back in the token trading business and even though we are just talking gold here...I don't think Jeff wants to put the resources, cost, manpower etc into this.<br />

<br /><br />Hi Gary,<br /><br />If Jeff & Company don't want allow non-gold/gem tokens to be traded in future auctions (the thought is still there for them to consider), how about another idea along the lines of what you were mentioning?<br /><br />As one of the perks of having a Token Trader Guild Membership, there could be a Guild Representative in the Tavern during set hours able and willing to buy unwanted tokens.  The prices paid could be something along the line of a set number of gold for commons and rares (maybe 2 GP/per common and 25 GP per Rare? Or whatever the Powers that be decide) and Very Rares could have a price list posted, probably based on the Price Guide referenced from the True Dungeon home page, preferably at a discount of at least 25% of the value, in order to not undercut individual traders who might offer closer to full value in trade.<br /><br />This might initially flood the market with extra gold, but most of that gold would quickly be turned back in via the auctions or combo token sales.  In addition, True Dungeon could make a special print run of the gold (and gem?) tokens for this purpose, and label them uniquely (perhaps "True Dungeon Treasure" on the back could be replaced with "True Dungeon Guild", keeping the spider to mark the year).  That would make these a collectible in and of themselves, with many collectors getting complete sets of the special gold and/or gem tokens each year, taking a number of those tokens effectively off the market.  <br /><br />That would accomplish the goal of keeping the auctions as a gold/gem only transaction, while at the same time giving collectors something to do with their extra tokens (turn them in for gold/gems), giving more value for a guild membership, and creating a neat new collectible with the yearly "guild" gold/gem tokens.  Win-Win-Win-Win.  <br /><br />And I would still advocate somehow having many more than 6 auctions per night, giving a lot more collectors the ability to use their gold to win an auction.  Perhaps more than one set of Artisan Tokens, perhaps a set of Ultra Rare tokens, or perhaps something as simple as a set of tokens from that year's print run individually auctioned with a special color ink or special markings (maybe the "Guild" marking on the back again).  Even a Common Dagger token would be well worth having, if it was a one of a kind printing (or even 2 or 3 of a kind), and something like the special printing Elixer of Life would bring some serious bids.  That might create auctions that range in value from low enough that someone that buys 10-25 bags might get, and high enough for the big spenders to go all out.  It would be kind of like "Foil" Magic Cards, but even rarer and cooler.<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Mike

I think there are now mechanisms in place to encourage the sale of new tokens and regulate the economy and  both from a GP standpoint and from a Common glut standpoint.  <br /><br />Artisan Tokens will regulate the GP in the economy.<br />Combo tokens can be used to regulate items.<br />And swapping in new tokens will encourage people to buy in the future.<br /><br />The concern I have is that these Gold sinks will go too far the other way and we will start to see deflation as people will accept less and less in GP/gems for items.  However, there are levers to mitigate this such as redistributing GP/gems in the dungeons.<br /><br /><br />

Mike,<br />      The real "MetaQuestion" is will a "Market" develop.   To function a "market" needs buyer and sellers with different goals.   The HUGE improvement toward the chance of a market forming is the introduction of the artisan items.   Before they were added to the game "Gold and Gems" had very low value, there was no ultimate consumer of this product.   Some people would take it but no one preferred it.   Now there is a demand for "Gold and Gems".<br /><br />This demand divides the players into groups with different goals.  Some players want better armor and weapons to play the game, they will happily trade their "useless" gold for valuable weapons.  Other players (lets call them Traders) want gold to buy Artisan items, they will trade the "useless" duplicate weapons and armor for valuable gold.   This will also have a secondary effect of giving "gold and gems" value in trades between players because they know they can exchange their gold for items with Trader.  <br /><br />I am very excited about prospects of the new game "TA - Players and Traders".  <br /><br />(Douglas) Deflation is a possibility.  But last year we had really bad inflation on Saturday and survived it (I paid 900 for one elixir of Healing).  Deflation takes time to set in, deflationary expectations (or desperate sellers) need to occur before that happens.  Adding extra gold via treasure will help a lot.  Maybe we should hire Alan Greenspan to control the gold supply in his free time.  <br /><br />Commons are a waste of space.    But why would TD want back something which everyone agrees is worthless?  What would they do with them? 

<br />(Douglas) Deflation is a possibility.   But last year we had really bad inflation on Saturday and survived it (I paid 900 for one elixir of Healing).  Deflation takes time to set in, deflationary expectations (or desperate sellers) need to occur before that happens.  <br />

<br /><br />Deflation and Inflation can both occur very rapidly.  As GP/Gems get syphoned out of the economy, people will value them more.  And with people talking about 1000s of GP for the artisan tokens, it looks like this is likely to occur.<br /><br />And to clarify, you paid 900 in GP/Gems for an Elixir?

this might be wrong, but it is just an opinion. it seems the majority of tokens sales comes from the die hards and veterans; given the number of gold tickets sold in no time. 77 tickets x 25 bags to get one x 10 tokens in a bag. yes i know that a few folks bought many more than just 1 gold ticket package. the idea would seem to be to SPREAD the exposure to more people. the more people that play, the more they MIGHT start buying tokens. who knows, you might even get another person like gary or myself that are token addicts. there needs to be a way to bring in more NEW players in order to increase market potential. that will bring in more buyers and stimulate economy/market/token sales/etc.<br /><br />hehe that almost sounds like i have some kind of business skills. ALMOST!

I think that's why there needs to be a way to trade Commons in for GP.  When the new players get their first bag of tokens, they will be able to trade it in for cash after their run and then "shop" and/or bid on items.  That's more than enough to turn people in token junkies like the rest of us.

<br />I think there are now mechanisms in place to encourage the sale of new tokens and regulate the economy and  both from a GP standpoint and from a Common glut standpoint.  <br /><br />Artisan Tokens will regulate the GP in the economy.<br />Combo tokens can be used to regulate items.<br />And swapping in new tokens will encourage people to buy in the future.<br /><br />The concern I have is that these Gold sinks will go too far the other way and we will start to see deflation as people will accept less and less in GP/gems for items.  However, there are levers to mitigate this such as redistributing GP/gems in the dungeons.<br /><br /><br /><br />

<br /><br />Hi Douglas,<br /><br />To address your three points:<br /><br />1.  Artisan Tokens will regulate the GP in the economy.  I think that the combination of the auctions and the combo tokens (all of which require a chunk of gold/gems) have swung the pendulum the other way, to where GP are overly scarce - the effects are already being seen, with a Gauntlets of Ogre Might trading recently for 350GP.  <br /><br />2.  Combo tokens can be used to regulate items.  Combo Tokens are driving GP values even higher, as every combo token requires a significant amount of Gold Pieces.  On the other hand, the combo tokens are having very little effect on non-GP/Gem tokens (other than perhaps the Scroll of Purify Food and Drink), as the combo tokens take very few of the non-GP tokens to use - a few Very Rare and Rares, and a larger number of common tokens.  Getting the combo tokens barely makes a dent on the non-GP/Gem tokens for anyone that has bought one or more Golden Tickets.<br /><br />3.  And swapping in new tokens will encourage people to buy in the future.  I can only speak for myself, but the way the system is set up now it is not encouraging me to buy more tokens in the future.  I have all the non-Ultra Rare tokens I'll ever need, and I have no way to get rid of the extra tokens that aren't gold or gems.  There is really no way to swap in new tokens that aren't gold or gems, except for the very few that are needed in combo tokens.  If I buy more bags of tokens in the future, I may get some new tokens or possibly an Ultra Rare token, but for the most part I'll get more multiples of the Very Rares, Rares, and Commons that I already have more than enough of.  That was why I was proposing some sort of system where surplus tokens could be traded in for gold/gems that can be used in the auctions (with hopefully an increased amount of items to bid for in the auctions), or for some sort of special tokens, or for something else of value.  Otherwise there may be some number of token buyers that decide that they don't need to buy more bags of tokens to primarily get more duplicates of tokens that they don't need and can't do anything with.  As things stand now, as much as I want to support True Dungeon, it is hard for me to justify buying more tokens in the future, and it's possible that there are others that are thinking the same thing.  Last year there was a Magic Shop and Armory in the Tavern which gave the players an option to swap out tokens they didn't need for items they did need, or for gold and gems, but those are gone now and don't seem likely to return (and on a personal note - those were my favorite parts of the Tavern, they really made it seem like a medieval town). <br />