TOPIC: +3 deathcleaver thoughts

Ro-gan wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

bpsymington wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

bpsymington wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Joshua Baessler wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Legion wrote:
Don't forget it's probably also Soulbound.

Why would you say it is Soulbound? Many others have used it. Thor's hammer could be argued to be soulbounded....not making that argument just saying it is more a likely candidate to be souldbound.

I never get to talk about comics.

Thor's hammer isn't soulbound either, it just has the restriction of only being wielded by he (or she, I'm looking at you, Jane Foster) who it (or Odin, depending on which continuity we're talking about here) deems worthy.

Wielders: Beta Ray Bill, Storm, Captain America, Thor's paternal line (father, gf, ggf), Loki (he's chaotic, not evil), Jane Foster, Professor X, Rogue, Black Widow, Superman (same crossover as above), and Vision (MCU, but my theory is the only reason he could at the time was that he was a blank slate, I don't think he'll ever be able to again now that he's lived a bit).

I suspect Vision could still lift it in MCU, he's still being portrayed as pretty "pure" and worthy. Although he did accidentally take down a teammate - maybe that knocks him a rung or two down the worthy chart. Although, I'd guess Thor has done likewise at least a time or two over the eons.

Isn't it more that the Vision is an artificial being, an android? If the Mjolnir is in an elevator and it goes up, is the elevator worthy?

Brad, that's an interesting take on it, that I never considered. My thought all along was that the Vision was worthy enough to lift it, which is why it was such an impressive moment in the film. That's still my take on it. But your explanation works also.

Me not Brad! Me Brian!

Sorry Brian - I guess that knocks me out of the "worthy" category.

Comics!! Now this I love and know!!

First off, the Vision from the movies is not the comic book version. Being a machine-being has nothing to do with it. In the movie Vision is in possession of one of the Infinity Gems. The Thought Gem, IIRC. I'm guessing that is why he was able to hold Mjolnir.

In the comics the only robotic being to wield Mjolnir is the Air Walker Construct. Off the top of my head without googling, I don't know if the Vision ever held the Hammer successfully.

Keep in mind about the Vision in the comics. His body is robotic but his consciousness/"soul" is a template of Simon Williams (Wonder Man). Technically he is a cyborg if anything. Although, I believe in the Marvel 616 he is classified as an android with a soul.

Since the Air Walker Construct has a soul, too, it was pure and able to use Mjolnir. Also, he was a former Herald of Galactus which also probably aided him to lift it.

Not all robotic beings in the MU 616 will be able to accomplish this. Thus the elevator theory is out the door.

Oh! And being worthy has nothing to do with not being a killer, etc. Thor is a Viking warrior. He has killed in the past in battle. He is a Viking after all. The killing aspect could be interpreted if you go that route that it was a worthy slaying and not done in malice.

I was upset that Cap couldn't lift it in Avengers: AoU (I know he moved it a tiny bit). If anyone is worthy it would be him. I know that in the comics he did lift and use it.

I was upset that Cap couldn't lift it in Avengers: AoU (I know he moved it a tiny bit). If anyone is worthy it would be him. I know that in the comics he did lift and use it.[/quote]

Unless you are talking about the new Captain America comic that just came out, where Steve Roger's is a Hydra Agent

Lordoftherealm wrote: I was upset that Cap couldn't lift it in Avengers: AoU (I know he moved it a tiny bit). If anyone is worthy it would be him. I know that in the comics he did lift and use it.

Unless you are talking about the new Captain America comic that just came out, where Steve Roger's is a Hydra Agent[/quote]

Good point - maybe the MCU Captain America has a bit of Hydra in him also. Because otherwise I'd also think that if anyone else would be worthy to lift the hammer it would be Captain America. Although I suspect that the Red Skull used the cosmic cube in the comics to modify Captain America's history to make him a lifetime Hydra Agent. One way or another it will be made null and void once the storyline is over.

Fun and insightful discussion on the Mjolnir / Steve Rogers topic here:

www.quora.com/Why-couldnt-Steve-Rogers-lift-Mj%C3%B6lnir-in-Avengers-Age-of-Ultron

Matthew Hayward wrote: Fun and insightful discussion on the Mjolnir / Steve Rogers topic here:

www.quora.com/Why-couldnt-Steve-Rogers-lift-Mj%C3%B6lnir-in-Avengers-Age-of-Ultron

Interesting. Thanks for the link.

bpsymington wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Fun and insightful discussion on the Mjolnir / Steve Rogers topic here:

www.quora.com/Why-couldnt-Steve-Rogers-lift-Mj%C3%B6lnir-in-Avengers-Age-of-Ultron

Interesting. Thanks for the link.

Makes sense to me. And kind of confirms what I said in better detail.

Very interesting. It never occurred to me the possibility that he could lift it but chose not to once he got it to budge. I like that explanation.

I always believed that Thor, and only Thor should be able to yield Mjolnir. Their relation defines each of them as to make them inseparable. Without each other, individually they become so much less. Even Odin should not be able to yield Mjolnir, even command when he transferred it to Thor.
When Mjolnir is yielded by anyone else, it detracts from that special bond between diety and instrument. It downplays champion and weapon that defined the Norse culture. It just seems disrespectful, somehow?
But, it does speak to the divinty of humanity. When Mjolnir is yielded by a mortal, it speaks to humanity's worthiness. So, I can see where that is a positive spin to the Norse mythos.