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TOPIC: Changes to Pirate Treasure Map

Changes to Pirate Treasure Map 2 months 2 weeks ago #25

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: how many people were around in 2011-2012. Those maps had some cool shit in that special box.
I dont know if these will have their own special box or not...


like I said anyone unhappy they bought Trade goods for $1 or less Show me what you paid, I will buy them from you


If the mix is different, that would change everything

we probably wont know that until Skull Con...I like to gamble so I am going to take some chances
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Changes to Pirate Treasure Map 2 months 2 weeks ago #26

I've used the treasure tracker to attempt to quantify the EV of a single treasure pull and at 40 TG's it's wildly EV negative even if my math is 300% wrong.

New proposal: Instead of changing the trade good cost to transmute a map, create a higher density "pirate's booty" from which to pull at in-person cons.

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Changes to Pirate Treasure Map 2 months 2 weeks ago #27

It seems like this whole thing is getting more complicated than necessary. Yes, at a cost of 10 trade goods, even I was investing a little to pick up some treasure maps. At a cost of 40, I won't get any. I'm not angry. I haven't bought so many that I can't eventually use them for transmutes. But this will also impact some of the preorder sales that are ongoing. Once the patron pins and dragon orb prices settle down, it's going to be increasingly difficult to fund any $8k orders as I suspect people are just about saturated with many trade goods. That creates a dilemma in that this change may ultimately hurt token sales.

I do think a better solution would be to raise the price closer to 20x. If 10x treasure chips were selling for $40, then people were overpaying. If you can ghost a run for $68, you get 23 treasure chips and a couple of completion tokens. Even if you ignore the completion tokens, that puts the cost of a 10x treasure chip closer to $30, which seems about right. I don't know. It's just my opinion, but I suspect there will be fallout one way or another.

Also: If these maps result in a special treasure box, that's not necessarily a good thing. All I recall from the last time they did this is that the "special" pulls I got were horribly bad. I ended up not even bothering turning in some of the maps or fragments and I have no regrets over that.

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Last edit: by Dave.

Changes to Pirate Treasure Map 2 months 2 weeks ago #28

I also want to point out some math.

$1 for trade item
$6 for Monster Bit (wholesale)
...5 per order...
$8 for TD processing
$9.20 for the box to get it there...
Cost for 50 treasure is 16x5 = 80 + 8 +9.20 = 97.20 or 1.94 per pull

If you run VTD at $66 and only consider the max treasure (23) by going farming...that is
2 hours of a wasted slot for someone else to play in... AND $2.86 per pull

If you move it to 20 per map, then its 26 x5= 130 +8 +9.20 = 147.20 or 2.94 per pull.

I think 20 is FAR TOO MUCH...It should be 15 as there needs to be some cost consideration for actually going thru the dungeon...

PLUS, as mentioned before, the 2021 MBs is really the governor of this...once there are no more...that will be the end of this.

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Changes to Pirate Treasure Map 2 months 2 weeks ago #29

Not going to send in for one Map or anything that isn't actually worth doing. Will send in with a bunch of other stuff that could be far more valuable. I'm sitting on a medium box where I need to get some Reavers together to make it worth the effort to transmute hundreds of chaff trade goods because the value I was planning on doing was handled through GHC.

Looking back, I was surprised I only suggested 20x once. I guess I don't care enough whether it destroys the treasure pull economy or not.

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Last edit: by Ian Lee.

Changes to Pirate Treasure Map 2 months 2 weeks ago #30

I really feel the recipe should not be changed this late.
I think it would be better to restrict how many each person can order instead.

Also if it’s a special box, I think that should be known, it would completely change everything.

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Changes to Pirate Treasure Map 2 months 2 weeks ago #31

Does it not sound absurd to talk about special treasure when the impetus for the change has to do with how the numbers relate to current treasure valuations?

Special treasure could be anything - all commons and legendaries would be funny - with value from "please don't give me these trash tokens" to "finally, we've made everyone's collections worthless by making everything dirt common".

Could leave the recipe at 10x chaff and still have a special treasure box of ... more chaff.

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Changes to Pirate Treasure Map 2 months 2 weeks ago #32

FWIW this effect was definitely predicted during recipe discussion back in August.

But values of other tokens fluctuate significantly depending on recipes that change from year to year (see: current auction price of Minotaur Hide); individuals may be happy or unhappy with those fluctuations, but the market adapts and the frogs mostly stay in the pot. Why is it specifically so important that the 2022 (and 2023) 10x Treasure Chips go for the same $30-$40 as other recent years' 10x Treasure Chips? Why not just let Pirate Treasure Map run its course as a 2-year experiment, based on the recipe that was already committed to? Worst case we'll be back to "normal" after PTM expires in 9/1/2023, and it certainly seems to be having a positive effect on preorder auctions right now.

I personally don't care that much about PTM, but I do care about the precedent: changing things this long after the fact undermines player confidence and trust. Is this really enough of a "problem" to warrant such a heavy-handed "solution"?
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Changes to Pirate Treasure Map 2 months 2 weeks ago #33

Ian Lee wrote: Does it not sound absurd to talk about special treasure when the impetus for the change has to do with how the numbers relate to current treasure valuations?

Special treasure could be anything - all commons and legendaries would be funny - with value from "please don't give me these trash tokens" to "finally, we've made everyone's collections worthless by making everything dirt common".

Could leave the recipe at 10x chaff and still have a special treasure box of ... more chaff.


If there were a special separate treasure box for these then no one would want to be left out.

I only put it as part of my message because Laz mentioned the possibility.

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Changes to Pirate Treasure Map 2 months 2 weeks ago #34

If you want to sell your MS or DP for $1, I will buy all you want to sell.

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Changes to Pirate Treasure Map 2 months 2 weeks ago #35

I certainly hope that there isn't a separate Treasure Box. I remember the last time there were separate Treasure Boxes with the Treasure Map token, there were numerous instances where people were told to draw from the wrong boxes, which created problems. If there were to be separate Treasure Boxes for this, that should be made clear now (like it was with the original Treasure Map boxes) so people could take that into account. I recall the earlier Treasure Map boxes had tokens from all years (including woodies) instead of just current tokens, which was pretty cool.

I do agree that the first recipe was way too low. 40 seems a bit high since (in most cases) a monster bit will be used also, with a value around $5. Maybe 30-35 of any trade item token along with the monster bit?

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Changes to Pirate Treasure Map 2 months 2 weeks ago #36

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I have found special boxes fun in the past but I can see how they would induce anxiety. Make the box to good and people will complain if they miss out or feel priced out of maps (Most normal physical players dont have 40 trade goods). Make the box to bad and people will complain anout the market crashing and not make any. Either way there will he hurt feelings.

Intentions aside I would avoid a special treasure box in this case.
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