TOPIC: Thinking about starting to gather components for a +5 Deathcleaver

Hi, everyone!

I'm thinking about starting to gather components for a +5 Deathcleaver. I've never transmuted anything big (only made Charm of the Fire Newt). How much can I expect to pay for components? There's a +3 Deathcleaver on ebay for $400, is that a good price?

I have a rare barbarian build, and I usually don't spend a lot of money on tokens. Board games, record collecting, audio gear and fancy craft beer keep me poor most of the time. I figured it would be easier to buy components than just buy the legendary, even though it would probably come out more expensive.

I wanted to try to make CoA first, but gave up on it when I realized how expensive the components are.

One more thing. Is Ioun Stone Elfstone Shard worth making? Seems like a pretty awesome token. I can still get the UR for it on auctions for under $100, monster bits I can trade for.

My Barbarian 2022
Class: Barbarian

STR: 26
DEX: 14
CON: 18
INT: 11
WIS: 13
CHA: 11

Melee:
Hit: 13 Damage: 19 AC: 18

Range:
Hit: 3 Damage: 9 AC: 21 Missle AC: 0

Spell:
Damage: 0 Heal: 0 Resist: 0

Saves:
Reflex: 10 Fort: 11 Will: 8

Treasure:
Min: 8 Max: 8

Health: 46

Damage Reduction:

Melee	Range	Spell	Fire	Cold	Shock	Sonic	Eldritch	Poison	Darkrift	Sacred
0	0	0	3	2	0	0	0	3	0	0

Melee Mainhand: +1 Heavy Claymore
Melee Offhand: Empty
Ranged Mainhand: Mighty Sling
Ranged Offhand: Ravager Large Shield
Head: Bliss Bull Helm
Eyes: Lenses of Heimdall Sight
Left Ear: Earcuff of Enlightenment
Right Ear: Rum Drinker’s Earcuff
Neck: Amulet of the Hero
Bead: Bead Whole Vision
Bead: Bead Firehold
Bead: Bead of the Stag
Torso: Darkling Void Armor
Wrist: Bracers of the Tavernkeeper
Hands: Gauntlets of the Midgard Serpent
Back: +2 Cloak of Resistance
Ring: Ring of Dark Health
Ring: Ring of the Siren’s Kiss
Waist: Belt of the Brave
Shirt: Shirt of Blessed Strength
Legs: Pantaloons of the Underdark
Shins: Greaves of Ice Resistance
Boots: Shoes of Nethercraft
Figurine: Figurine of Power: Imp
Charm: Charm of Health
Charm: Fiendish Charm
Charm: Charm of the Fire Newt
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Jasper Prism
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Amber Cube
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Beryl Prism
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Gold Nugget
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Platinum Nugget
Slotless: Enchanter’s Whetstone
Slotless: Tankard of Celebration
Slotless: Medallion of Nobility
Slotless: Canteen of Quaffing
Runestone: Water Runestone

Thank you!

As a general rule, it is vastly cheaper to buy an already transmuted token over transmuting it, unless you happen to have collected many of the components.

Check out this Auction analysis spreadsheet and you can get a decent idea of the recent trend of trade goods.

It's good that you noticed transmutes are more expensive from individual components than just outright purchase. The spreadsheet linked above is a good start to the analysis, but make sure you get the full picture of the cost disparity.

Edit: eBay link isn't working for some reason. It sold for $820

Most legendary transmutes have 4 major fixed costs before all the various trade goods. Those costs are (from most to least expensive based on recent prices):
- 25,000 GP eldritch ore bar (~$350-375)
- Relic ($300 based on last eBay auction)
- Wish ring OR 15,000 GP ($200-215)
- 2 ultra rares (more recent URs can be had for $100 or less, but these two seem very pricey)

Just the Relic + the GP in this case is more than the $800 the +5 Deathcleaver went for in auction.

Please don't take this as a "do not do this!" recommendation. There's a certain satisfaction that comes from making a transmute! I'm hoping to do the same at Gen Con, but I got lucky and pulled about 35k GP from my various VTD treasure to make it happen. If I hadn't gotten that, I may never have upgraded.

Now, the cool thing about doing the transmute long term is you get a feeling of adventuring, getting the components, and finally crafting the item. Roleplaying!!

If you really want to transmute a +5 deathcleaver, you should totally do it.

However, it's the most expensive and time consuming way to go about it.

There's one on Trent's for $1165. Not sure who C65 is, but I bet you could get it for $1050. That's going to be cheaper than getting all the components, even if you had max treasure and did some grinding to get some of the materials.

Now I don't want to make it sound like I'm trying to talk you out of it, but realistically there isn't that much difference between the 5 star relics and their legendary counterparts.

I played at relic level for a couple years and none of the nightmare runs felt challenging. Even the epic runs I did weren't that bad with just relics and URs.

I imagine at legendary level you just walk through everything.

So bottom line, it's better game wise to buy three 5 star relics than one legendary. The +3 deathcleaver is only +2hit/dam worse than the legendary that costs $700 more.

If you really want a deathcleaver, you should totally get it. Either transmute or buy, whichever you find more fun.

I wanted to share my experience with this game. At this point, I don't think legendaries are really worth it for what they give you.

Easy to get Averon's at 900 at the moment if going to be at Skull Con.

Anyway, one of the other reasons Averon's is not an obvious choice is that it's not a flexible token. But, then, there are those who care far more about playing a particular class than I do.

Kresimir - I wouldn't prioritize the Deathcleaver. It is a great weapon but you can make a much bigger dent in your build with other items first. The Whetstone combined with the best damage wheel rare is as good as virtually any UR for Barbarians for 2 handed weapons. The ElfStone Shard is a great item and among BiS for Ioun Stones. You can get one for less fully transmuted than transmuting it yourself.

TE's are always first since they help you improve your build over time. You are right that the COA is really expensive right now ($1800+) - until we see a treasure cap, I don't see if dropping in price, though. In my recommendations below, I put TE's right up front. You'll draw tokens you don't need but can sell those via the secondary market to help fund the stuff you really do want.

Others have commented that building a transmute is almost always more expensive than just buying it. This applies to virtually every item. Beyond Auri's Candle (definitely an edge case), I can't think of the last transmute that you couldn't buy the transmuted item for less than building it today.

I find that adding things that make your builds more fun and more viable at NM difficulty is a great way for players to progress. NM usually means more experienced players and more variety in terms of themes, play styles, etc.. PUG runs are fun too but if you have a NM build, that opens most everything to you.

To play at NM, you'd need a to hit of at least +15 and saves around +15 (or work-around like figurines for auto-succeeding on certain saves.) You are close on to-hit, your saves are the crutch.

If you were to spend $400-$450, I'd recommend the following instead of the deathcleaver:
Medallion of Furious Attacks ($300)
Cook's Hat ($110)
Ioun Stone Jasper ($15)

Ioun Stone Silver* (wait for the prices to go down into the $200's. $300+ might be a strange current spike - not sure why it jumped more than $100 in the past year.)

General recommendations for 2022 and earlier tokens:
1. Ioun Stone Silver Nugget - TE's are always BiS
2. Level boosting item - 5th level is critical to strong builds - I recommend Cook's Hat as there are slot expanders coming for Ioun Stones - later get your 5th level with 2 eldritch items (or similar combinations). Cook's is currently about $110.
3. Medallion of Furious Attack or Bog's Medallion (I wouldn't recommend transmuting furious attack but if you get one and later get Bog's, you'll almost certainly sell it for what you paid for it.)
-The Barb class relic/legendary is among the very best. Even the relic with +6 damage, 1 extra rage, and a use of Fury (auto crit) is amazingly impactful. Fury is a lot of fun to use for Barbarians.
4. Relic Charm bracelets - slot boosters are incredibly helpful for all builds
5. Charm of Glory - Ring is the most powerful slot - pick this up before it gets too expensive (recent OOP)
6. Relic or legendary Havok ring - BiS damage item that will likely keep its resale value if/when you decide to upgrade.
7. Master Ale Drinker's Bead (inexpensive +3 con)

2023:
1. Bead of Bounty (TE)
2. Gauntlets of Divine Guidance (+3 to hit melee)
3. Lenses of Flawsight (+2 to hit melee)
4. Earcuff of Orbits (slot expander)

You have quite a few items that you can keep long term (your 2 TE's, Ring of Dark Health, Belt of the Brave, Charm of the Fire Newt, Enchanter's Whetstone.) There are some other rare or lower level items that you should consider adding that have a big impact on your build:
Ring of Brilliance (+3 dmg w/ 2 handed)
Ioun Stone Jasper Ellipsoid (+2 damage)
Boots of the Bolt (+1 to hit and damage)

I roughed up a build that adds the Ioun Stone you as missing, Cook's Hat, and the relic barb necklace. It could be a good starting point. It meets the pre-req for to-hit for NM (as well as really good damage) but fails badly on saves. It would need something to help with reflex and will saves. Adding a charm of glory for a ring slot then equipping a greater ring of reflexes (really inexpensive item) would get you a great deal closer to a legit NM build.

tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/230637bc-273a-45a5-bd13-ab7a461e7c72

Fred

Thank you all for the suggestions.

Fred, thank you for giving me suggestions for what I should get next year. For +1 level I'm hoping I get lucky at Gen Con and pull some more tinkering bits for the totem. Have 3 pieces right now.

Kresimir