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TOPIC: Unspecified Damage Bonuses, Resistances, and Vulnerabilities

Unspecified Damage Bonuses, Resistances, and Vulnerabilities 4 months 2 weeks ago #1

  • Druegar
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The intention is to add this to the next published version of the PHB. But first, I thought I'd take this opportunity to explain how all this works and see if I overlooked anything or need to add more clarity.

Unspecified Damage Bonuses
Any unspecified damage type adds to the core type of damage the attack deals. This applies to both magical and physical damage.
Examples:
  • If the core damage of a fireball is 10 Fire, adding 5 Focus to that would deal a total of 15 Fire.
  • If the core damage of a club attack is 10 Blunt, adding a generic +5 melee damage would deal a total of 15 Blunt.
If an attack deals multiple types of damage, any unspecified damage bonuses get added to whatever the core type of damage the attack would have otherwise dealt.

Note: An attack's core damage is not necessarily the most damage dealt by that attack.
Examples:
  • If the core damage of a fireball is 10 Fire but the character has a ring that adds 20 Shock damage to all cast spells, adding 5 Focus to that would net 35 damage (15 Fire and 20 Shock)
  • If the core damage of a club attack is 10 Blunt, but the character has a ring that adds 2 Shock damage to all melee attacks and magic underwear that adds +3 Fire damage to all physical attacks, adding a generic +5 melee damage would net 20 damage (15 Blunt, 2 Shock, and 3 Fire)
However, if the attack's core type of damage is completely converted to a different type, adding an unspecified damage bonus increases the damage of the new type.
Example:
  • If the core damage of a fireball is 10 Fire, but the character uses a Crown of Elemental Mastery to convert that to an iceball, adding 5 Focus to that would deal a total of 15 Cold.

Damage Resistance/Reduction
Damage Resistance (aka Damage Reduction) applies only to that specific type of damage.
Example:
  • If the core damage of a club attack is 10 Blunt, but the character has a ring that adds 2 Shock damage to all melee attacks and magic underwear that adds +3 Fire damage to all physical attacks, adding a generic +5 melee damage would net 20 damage (15 Blunt, 2 Shock, and 3 Fire). But...
    • If that monster had Blunt DR 10, it would suffer 10 points of damage from the attack (5 from the Blunt that exceeded it's DR, 2 Shock, and 3 Fire)
    • If that monster had Blunt DR 30, it would suffer 5 points of damage from the attack (all the Blunt is negated, but it still takes 2 Shock and 3 Fire)
    • If that monster is immune to Blunt, it would suffer 5 points of damage from the attack (all the Blunt is negated, but it still takes 2 Shock and 3 Fire)
Note: Eldritch is never subject to Damage Reduction. Even if the core damage is completely negated, any/all Eldritch damage the attack may have still applies.

Damage Vulnerability
Even a single point of the specified damage triggers the full amount of vulnerability.
Example:
  • If 1-point fireBB is launched at a monster that takes +20 damage from Fire, that monster takes 21 damage from the attack.

Does all that make sense?
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Last edit: by Druegar.

Unspecified Damage Bonuses, Resistances, and Vulnerabilities 4 months 2 weeks ago #2

Since it's so common, should spell out how Sacred works, including when Sacred attacks crit.

Should include immunity. If I cast a fire spell against a fire elemental, does my Eldritch damage bonus still deal damage? Sonic damage bonus? In VTD, immunity to a damage type has fully nullified spell damage even if it had a variety of different energy types.

Speaking of VTD, I don't remotely think Sacred is applied consistently and correctly vs undead, which defeats using Sacred. At this point, as doubling damage is way too much anyway, I'd much rather that Sacred work like vulnerabilities, where it's a set damage bonus.

Either Damage Vulnerability above is a change or VTD also doesn't do it right, where there's a 1:1 increase in damage up to a max. So, if you deal 2 pts. of cold, you get +2 damage even if the max bonus is 5.

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Unspecified Damage Bonuses, Resistances, and Vulnerabilities 4 months 2 weeks ago #3

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Tweaked a couple entries in the initial post.

You can expect these rules to be implemented in the progs in January when the 2024 tokens get added.
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Unspecified Damage Bonuses, Resistances, and Vulnerabilities 4 months 2 weeks ago #4

Woukd you clarify how character DR works in general (and for the app in VTD)? The app will list a DR for the character for melee, range and spell, plus various damage types. If the DM states that the character takes 8 melee cold damage do both the melee and cold reductions apply? Also, should it be assumed that a monster dealing damage at range is using a spell unless it’s a physical attack? And if the spell, for example, does cold damage, does both the spell DR and the cold DR apply? Usually the DMs do not specify, for example, that of 15 damage 10 is base plus 5 cold.

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Unspecified Damage Bonuses, Resistances, and Vulnerabilities 4 months 2 weeks ago #5

Druegar wrote:
Damage Resistance (aka Damage Reduction) applies only to that specific type of damage.
Example:

  • If the core damage of a club attack is 10 Blunt, but the character has a ring that adds 2 Shock damage to all melee attacks and magic underwear that adds +3 Fire damage to all physical attacks, adding a generic +5 melee damage would net 20 damage (15 Blunt, 2 Shock, and 3 Fire). But...
    • If that monster had Blunt DR 30, it would suffer 5 points of damage from the attack (all the Blunt is negated, but it still takes 2 Shock and 3 Fire)


What if the target has 20 "melee" DR (as granted by e.g. tokendb.com/token/greaves-of-the-stalwart/ )?

What if the target has 2 Fire DR and 17 melee DR?
dmrzzz's trade thread

Yes, my AC is lower than the Wizard's. No regrets!

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Unspecified Damage Bonuses, Resistances, and Vulnerabilities 4 months 2 weeks ago #6

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Unspecified Damage Bonuses, Resistances, and Vulnerabilities 4 months 2 weeks ago #7

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Mike Steele wrote: Are there still damage resistances that work against all types of damage

Yes
Well, all except Eldritch.
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Unspecified Damage Bonuses, Resistances, and Vulnerabilities 4 months 2 weeks ago #8

This would be a good time to get rid of Eldritch as a damage type.

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Unspecified Damage Bonuses, Resistances, and Vulnerabilities 4 months 2 weeks ago #9

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Manimal wrote: should it be assumed that a monster dealing damage at range is using a spell unless it’s a physical attack?

If a DM only tells you you are taking "ranged damage", don't assume, ask for clarification:
  • Is it a manticore flinging tail spines at you? (Piercing)
  • Is it your (former) buddy Dave hurling sling stones at you? (Blunt)
  • Is it an orge mage casting a spell at you?
    If so, what is the damage type of the spell?
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Unspecified Damage Bonuses, Resistances, and Vulnerabilities 4 months 2 weeks ago #10

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Ian Lee wrote: This would be a good time to get rid of Eldritch as a damage type.

Consider that dream crushed.
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Unspecified Damage Bonuses, Resistances, and Vulnerabilities 4 months 2 weeks ago #11

I know my dream will be crushed, but would love to see some sort of retroactive change where we just have one DR number and it applies to everything that is not Eldritch. The current DR rules feel too complicated to track on a run without bringing a cheat sheet and you shouldn't need a cheat sheet in True Dungeon.

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Last edit: by OrionW.

Unspecified Damage Bonuses, Resistances, and Vulnerabilities 4 months 2 weeks ago #12

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OrionW wrote: would love to see some sort of retroactive change where we just have one DR number and it applies to everything that is not Eldritch

I completely understand the desire for simplicity, Orion. I really do. But doing so would require issuing errata for dozens and dozens of tokens issued over the last two decades. We really don't like to issue errata unless it's absolutely necessary. Not everyone who plays TD reads the forums and they get cranky when a token they've used one way for years all of a sudden behaves a different way--even if it's a change in their favor*.
Furthermore, a change like that would instantly make all these damage-type-specific tokens more powerful by making their DR universal:
Acid
Cold
Darkrift
Fire
Melee Attacks
Missiles
Sacred
Shock
Sonic
Spells
Traps

Thus, I'm afraid your prediction was accurate. 🔨💥 😞

*I'm reminded of this joke I heard years ago:
How many gamers does it take to change a light bulb?
Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ]
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