TOPIC: PURP Trade Offer

I'm looking for a Horn of Plenty, Dragonscale Armor, Mithril Chain, Girdle of Hill Giant Strength, +2 Longsword, or +2 Holy Great Sword and others (see below) - and I'm offering the following package to outfit someone quite well for True Dungeon or True Arena<br /><br />+2 Great Axe (2007)<br />Gauntlets of Ogre Power<br />Full Plate<br />Helm of Clear Thought<br />+2 Cloak of Resistance<br /><br />These have a value of 2775 GP.  I'll trade even for any of these items, all valued less than that:<br /><br />Horn of Plenty<br />Dragonscale Armor<br />Mithral Chainmail<br />+2 Holy Great Sword<br />Girdle of Hill Giant Strength<br />+2 Longsword<br />Dragonscale Shield<br />Gearon's +2 Heavy Mace<br /><br />Thanks!<br />Mike

Heh, if anyone actually had any of those to trade, it would ignite a biding war like crazy. It seems the priceguide is only even slightly accurate for some of the older, more obsolete, purps or consumables. Inflation has just gotten insane. I was told the last mithril chain up went for something like 28 reds plus change. i don't even like to think about what would be the response if someone popped up with a dragonscale shield or gearon's mace. It would probaly take a forklift to transport the tokens offered.

<br />Heh, if anyone actually had any of those to trade, it would ignite a biding war like crazy. It seems the priceguide is only even slightly accurate for some of the older, more obsolete, purps or consumables. Inflation has just gotten insane. I was told the last mithril chain up went for something like 28 reds plus change. i don't even like to think about what would be the response if someone popped up with a dragonscale shield or gearon's mace. It would probaly take a forklift to transport the tokens offered.<br />

<br /><br />It's funny you said that, as I was just messenging Gary a couple of days ago saying I was pondering putting my Dragonscale Shield out there to see what offers it would get - I agree the priceguide isn't accurate at all for either the Dragonscale Shield or Gearon's +2 Mace  =)

Might not be a bad time to cash in while you can. It all depends on what gets introduced further down the line. Already for the paladin, the DS shield is no longer optimal so it's one class less that really needs it. At the very least, it'll probably always be good for druids and clerics since they're unlikely to pick up nice two-handed weapons.

<br />Might not be a bad time to cash in while you can. It all depends on what gets introduced further down the line. Already for the paladin, the DS shield is no longer optimal so it's one class less that really needs it. At the very least, it'll probably always be good for druids and clerics since they're unlikely to pick up nice two-handed weapons.<br />

<br /><br />Well, that's a matter of preference.  I'd still go with a +2 Longsword and Dragonscale Shield as Paladin rather than the +2 Holy Greatsword.  The extra 3 points of AC is worth more to me than the extra damage.  I suspect many will feel the same way. 

We've done the math before, quite a few times, and damage is almost always better than AC. The caveat to that is if you have a group that works together. You even end up taking less damage when you go for dealing more damage than for higher AC. I guess some people will stick to the perception that AC is best, but it just dosen't pan out in the end.

<br />Heh, if anyone actually had any of those to trade, it would ignite a biding war like crazy. It seems the priceguide is only even slightly accurate for some of the older, more obsolete, purps or consumables. Inflation has just gotten insane. I was told the last mithril chain up went for something like 28 reds plus change. i don't even like to think about what would be the response if someone popped up with a dragonscale shield or gearon's mace. It would probaly take a forklift to transport the tokens offered.<br />

<br />I traded a Mithral Chainmail just last week.  When I receive the tokens (they should be here Monday or Tuesday) I will post the trade.  But 28 reds is close  =D

<br />We've done the math before, quite a few times, and damage is almost always better than AC. The caveat to that is if you have a group that works together. You even end up taking less damage when you go for dealing more damage than for higher AC. I guess some people will stick to the perception that AC is best, but it just dosen't pan out in the end.<br />

<br /><br />Well, I'd say you're in the minority as to preferring damage over AC, despite what the math shows (and the "group working together" caveat is by no means assured), since it's clear to see that one-handed weapons and Dragonscale Shield are valued much higher than 2-handed weapons.  The +2 Holy Greatsword is bucking that trend somewhat, but I suspect it will still end up lower valued than the +2 Longsword or +2 Gearon's Heavy Mace, or the Dragonscale Shield.  It has the "new item" glitter on it now, but I think that will fade. 

Hell, I was bored. Figured I'd sketch the math just for shits and giggles.<br /><br />5 characters can use a large shield: Bard, Cleric, Fighter, Paladin, Barbarian<br /><br />4 characters can use the DS shield: Cleric, Fighter, Paladin, Barbarian<br /><br />Only 3 characters have a good 2-handed weapon option in forgoing the shield: Fighter, Paladin, Barbarian<br /><br />Since the question is whether dealing more damage is better or more AC is better, we'll examine the last group, though you can just as easily run the hypothetical as something like gauntlets vs gloves and the results are even more staggering.<br /><br />AC first:<br /><br />Lets assuming a monster strikes once a turn. The numbers change if you're facing something like that marilith(sp) whozit with multi-attacks, but the vast majority of TD monsters have one one-strikers. This means, the netgain to the party is that the one individual targeted has a bonus to his AC based on his chosen equipment of a shield.<br /><br />Large shield: +2 to AC, +10% gain<br /><br />DS shield: +3 to AC, +15% gain<br /><br />Since the liklihood of one of the three characters to be attacked out of party is 3/7 or 42.9%, the net effect of the large shield is really a +4.29% gain to AC or +6.43% for the DS shield. If you're assuming that bards and wizards don't engage in combat at all and thus cannot be hit (discounting the existance of monster reach or range) and assuming that they are in your party to begin with as character classes, the liklihood of one of the three being attacked is 3/5 or  60%. This would give you a bonus to AC of +6.0% for the large shield and +9.0% for the DS shield.<br /><br />Damage:<br /><br />Since every character gets to swing away, the increased damage potential is added each round and we do not need to take into consideration the randomness factor of who is targeted like in AC.<br /><br />The average damage for a +2 one handed weapon (say the longsword +2) is 6.5. Across all three characters, we would have an average damage potential of 6.5 + 6.5 + 6.5 as our base.<br /><br />Now, lets assume everyone has the +2 holy great sword. The average damage for the three characters would then be 7.5 + 7.5 + 7.5. A net gain of +3 points or +15.4%.<br /><br />If we further speculate that this particular monster was evil, the damage potential is 7.5 + 10.5 + 7.5 with a result of +5 points, or +30.8%.<br /><br /><br />In actuality, the benefit of more damage is even better than it would suggest here since the monster you're battling has a finite number of hit points. If the increased damage manages to push the monster past its threshold a round early than would otherwise be the case, you end up 'saving' yourself from an attack and the potential damage to be inflicted.<br /><br />I feel I should also mention 'gambler's lament' here. This is the only reason why I add the caveat that you need a group that works together. In effect, that's simply shorthand for having people who are willing to cover the liklihood of bankroll-breaking streaks. While the net gain is clearly better for damage compared to AC, the fact that all characters have finite hitpoints means the possibility of hitting bottom during unlucky streaks. If, for instance, the DM decides to attack one single character 3 times in a row or through the course of random decisions one character is targeted multiple times in succession, the perspective changes (possibly). If the one targeted is the class making the decision between AC or damage, then in that situation AC would be superior because once the bottom of 0 hitpoints is reached, the game, as far as that particular senario is concerned, is over. As long as you have people who are not complete jerkoffs in your group, you should be fine.

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<br />We've done the math before, quite a few times, and damage is almost always better than AC. The caveat to that is if you have a group that works together. You even end up taking less damage when you go for dealing more damage than for higher AC. I guess some people will stick to the perception that AC is best, but it just dosen't pan out in the end.<br />

<br /><br />Well, I'd say you're in the minority as to preferring damage over AC, despite what the math shows (and the "group working together" caveat is by no means assured), since it's clear to see that one-handed weapons and Dragonscale Shield are valued much higher than 2-handed weapons.  The +2 Holy Greatsword is bucking that trend somewhat, but I suspect it will still end up lower valued than the +2 Longsword or +2 Gearon's Heavy Mace, or the Dragonscale Shield.  It has the "new item" glitter on it now, but I think that will fade.  <br />

<br /><br />The DS shield is valued because it's _discontinued_. If it was included in this lot of purples, it wouldn't be at the top of my list by a longshot, well, unless I was a cleric. It's not even a question for the druid what would be at the top. As for fighters, it would clearly be the full plate +1. Paladin choice would be full plate +1 or holy great sword +2. You might be able to make the arguement for barbarians, but that boils down to the ac vs damage arguement I stated above.

<br />4 characters can use the DS shield: Cleric, Fighter, Paladin, Barbarian<br />

<br /><br />Can't the druid use the DS shield too?

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<br />We've done the math before, quite a few times, and damage is almost always better than AC. The caveat to that is if you have a group that works together. You even end up taking less damage when you go for dealing more damage than for higher AC. I guess some people will stick to the perception that AC is best, but it just dosen't pan out in the end.<br />

<br /><br />Well, I'd say you're in the minority as to preferring damage over AC, despite what the math shows (and the "group working together" caveat is by no means assured), since it's clear to see that one-handed weapons and Dragonscale Shield are valued much higher than 2-handed weapons.  The +2 Holy Greatsword is bucking that trend somewhat, but I suspect it will still end up lower valued than the +2 Longsword or +2 Gearon's Heavy Mace, or the Dragonscale Shield.  It has the "new item" glitter on it now, but I think that will fade.  <br />

<br /><br />I'm with Henwy on this.  If you look at the numbers, having a "offensive" group with 2-Handed weapons is better for any given battle than a "defensive" minded group.  The main reason I think is just making sure you finish combat because if you don't, AC isn't going to help you and your group is going to take A LOT of damage, like 6 pts per player?<br /><br />But here is another way to think about it.  If a group was compossed of ONLY Fighter, Paladin, and Barbarian, then like Henwy mentioned the monsters attack would have a 10% (or 15% less chance of hitting) .  At say 6 HPs per swing, this is 0.6 to 0.9 HPs of damage per round.  Those three players though will hit for 3 HPs more per swing with 2-handed weapons.  If their chance of hitting is 50%, then this is 1.5 HPs per round or 1HP for a 33% chance.  But this is the best case scenario for the 1-handed argument.  In a larger group, the likelihood that shields will have a chance to offer protection is even lower.  So 0.6-0.9 drops to 0.3-0.45HPs per swing for a group of 6.  If a battle is say 5 rounds, then this is 5-7.5HPs of damage dealt in exchange for 1.5-2HPs of damage recieved.<br /><br />So the question is something like, is it worth it for your group to do like 6 more points of damage if it means that you will take 2 more points of damage in return?  And if combat ends a round early, you might even take less damage.  Not to mention that finishing combat earlier gives more time to explore the room, talk about strategy, heal, and what not.<br />