TOPIC: Feedback Needed on Relic/Legend Event Idea

I like the idea

Great idea. I would spend extra on tokens to be able to craft relics for this.

this sounds really neat, and i would totally get in on it. BUT, are you sure you are ready to commit to doing this every year? i presume that this relic would be permanent, since you would be going to all the effort to get each persons name on it. which means this event will need to be run every year.

also, a thought on logistics: make sure to leave enough leeway in the cutoff time for shipping. since a lot of people will have to ship you the components to make this new item, you would probably be receiving them well into october. maybe you would have people fill out a form online/email to let you know the tokens were coming, but give them until december (or the token party at whosyercon) to get them to you (and you hold their relic until then).

As a general concept I really like the idea. However there seem to be some issues.

#1. If you do this (and create a lot of +3 gear) people will start complaining that nightmare is too easy.

#2. This will speed up Mudflation significantly. Blue will be the new Purple.

#3. Either you are going to have to add a TON of Legendary types of weapons and armor (which will make #1 and #2 go even faster) or you are going to have the problem of groups that have invulnerable plate wearers and everyone else in robes.

That will require a major change to how the game is run. The DMs will need to be forced to have some restriction on who the mobs can attack. We may have to add something like DND 3.5 has with marching order and most people doing ranged combat.

#4. Every class that doesn't get a Legendary weapon is going to complain. People buying Legendary weapon they are going to want the best their class can use. I can't imagine buying a Legendary dagger for my Druid.

#5. I agree with Raven, going to hard to keep the people who do not qualify from buying a ticket.

I LOVE the idea, on principle.

Practicalities which need to be considered though. For example:

~ If you put it in GenCon's event list, total newbies WILL sign up for it. Just look at what happens with Nightmare, or what used to happen with True Arena when it required being a level 2 player. Those players will then be very disappointed if they are turned away. Plus they will have taken up a slot which can't be easily filled, if only certain token-holders may play this event. (Christopher Nieport had some good comments on this, too)

~ XP? You didn't mention XP, but if you run the event, some players will ask for/expect it. And other players will see it as rich players "buying" more XP for themselves.
If the event happens, please deal with it the same way you do True Grind: NO XP. Otherwise it creates yet another rift between new and experienced players.

~ Completion token: Will there be a unique token or prize available for this event? Big token buyers do like their special collectibles. If you choose to make one, please be careful about what it is, how powerful it is, and who will get it (everyone? Only people who solve the final puzzle?)

~ Soul-Forging. Hm... what about those players who spend a great deal Soul-Forging a Gateway Cube, and then can't make it to GenCon? Will they be reimbursed? Will their cube (and only theirs) be transferrable to someone else? Will they be able to use it in a future year? Would it be better to make "limited edition" tokens with a number or a code on them, which are secured to a particular person but (for a fee) could be transferred to someone else?

~ Gear. As some folks have pointed out, some gear currently available only at UR or below is very important to the design of certain characters. Is this the year you want to print a Relic-level Bardic instrument? Relic Thieves tools*? Relic item which lets you surprise-attack first round**? Relic Potion of Polymorph for the Druid? Relic Holy Symbol?

~ People have very complex GenCon schedules. If this is an event run only at (a) very specific time(s), there will be people who have very strong opinions on when it should be, or who will be vocally disappointed if they craft the stone but can't make the event time.

To sum up: LOVE the idea. Want to see it work. Need to look at a ton of factors for it to be viable.

Cool idea, Jeff!


*oooh, that makes me think: an UR which lets Rogues re-try once per box, upgradable to a Relic version whic hlets you re-try with Ektdars once/box.
Also that this would be a good time to revisit a Rogues item (Charm? Ring?) which allows surprise attack on the first round but doesn't take up the boot slot.

jedibcg wrote: My first question is what about those that equip a party of 10? What if I have the resources to make more than 1? Would they all be soulforged to me? Do I choose whom they get soulforged to? Since I also buy all tickets for my group (often without any reimbursement) would I be able to buy these special slots for them?

I think the idea is awesome I just would like to know some more details.

You can soulforge the Cubic Gate to any name you wish...so you can make one for your friend if you wish.

The ticketing method is still up in the air. I can tell you that we would NOT allow one person to buy 10 tickets. It would have to be one or two tickets. We have to do it this way to reduce ticket issues.

I think it would be much easier to allow common non magic gear and relic level gear. You wouldn't need to make a bunch of relics just for the event and you could make it useful to have some common gear.

Kaledor wrote: Not sure about the soul forge unless we can share the items with the group we are in. If so, then it's a good idea, something like...

"Soulforged to Ed Arneson and anyone in group"

Each Cubic Gate would have to be soulforged to only one person. This is meant to be a nice reward for the big token collectors.

Ticketing should not be an issue. Like I said before you can create GenCon events that no one can sign up for. This happens all the time for tournaments.

I agree with Raven that this needs to be a non-XP event.

One concern of mine is releasing that many Relics over a 1-2 year period. The power growth is going to be phenomenal, Nightmare will need to be ratcheted up to a MUCH higher difficulty level, maybe at least twice as much of an increase as the increase between Normal and Hardcore (although, I think already the ratio should be higher).

Also, are these Relics also only going to be available until the end of the next year? If so, in order to allow new players to join in each year, you'll need to print a large number of relics every year so that they can reasonably outfit their characters. That might not be a bad thing though, it gives a lot of choices as to what Relics people want to get.

Even though it doesn't really seem to work for me, I think it's a great idea and lots of people will be thrilled to do it. Be sure you can have the capacity to handle a lot of people if more people than you expect join in.

Matthew Wheat wrote:

jedibcg wrote: Thinking about this more I am scared of this event. I want to do it, but I think it would be either an event with people that have very few relics or just an event with very few people.

To me, it seems like this event would be limited to only the higher-ups; the people with the most tokens. Sure, there might be a few people with only a couple relics, but it seems too...narrow a focus, if that makes sense. I get that Jeff is trying to treat the major transmute players to a wonderful event, but there should be a way a regular player could get in without having to spend tons of money.

To be perfectly honest, this event is meant to be a big thank you to the big token collectors. The event would be a mere shadow of itself without their support, so something targeted to them does not seem out of bounds to me.

Alvin Oliver wrote: I think it is a great idea. IMO I think one ticket per person would be great. I even like the idea of soulforging the cube to the person, and not to a person or in his/her group.

I see that there would either have to be a ton of relics and a few legendaries in 2014 or we would have quite a bit of open gear spots. If there are Relics for most of the slots, then it would make a huge jump in power creep for the normal dungeon.

The event is meant to be somewhat of a throw back to the old days of taking little equipment into an adventure, so there would be MANY open slots that would be slowly filled over the years. And yes, the Monk would be a great class to play -- as well as spellcasters until a few years went by and fighter-types got more equipment.

Maybe in 2014 we would just have a generic +3 Club that anyone could use and some +3 light armor that everyone but the Monk and Wizards could use. It is meant to be a token-lite event where a single token can have a big effect (like +3 Bracers).