TOPIC: Common misconception about Combat vs. Puzzle

I agree - the combat side should have two combat stamps and one puzzle stamp, while the puzzle side should have two puzzle and one combat stamp.

I like keeping the distinction between the two sides, because then we get to see more awesome rooms!

Raven wrote: I acknowledge that both adventures have some of each (Combat and Puzzle) and also reminded people of this... but 2 things did stand out which I thought were valid comments:

1) Starting a "Combat" run with 2 puzzles in a row felt... odd. I'm not the only one who double-checked "We are on the Combat side, right? I didn't accidentally sign in to Puzzle?"
But since we moved on to Combat rooms afterwards, that feeling quickly went away.

2) Treasure Stamps. With 2 of the Treasure stamps coming from Puzzle-related rooms, it meant that groups who chose Combat-Oriented deliberately (because they are more interested/better equipped for Combat than Puzzles) were at a disadvantage.

It felt a bit like Studying for a Calculus test, in a Calculus course, and then 2/3s of your grade being based on your use of Grammar.

I liked the Puzzles, and don't feel they were unreasonable locations for a Treasure Stamp, but I concede that a Combat-oriented run is going to attract players who want to be judge on (and rewarded for) their combat-readiness... not their puzzle-solving skills. It might be a good idea in the future to aim for 2 Treasure Stamps coming from rooms directly related to the nature of the Dungeon (Combat or Puzzle.)

This... 100% this.

Brad Mortensen wrote: What Raven said.

If one of the stamps is in one of the "unique" rooms, this problem automatically fixes itself.

This seems like a good solution as well.

My initial post in this thread had nothing to do with consecutive puzzle rooms in a combat dungeon. I don't disagree with how that feel odd. I was addressing the very wrong assumption (and frankly, ignorance) that combat rooms would not have any puzzles.

It came up in my training room a few times.
At this point I'm not surprised at any player ignorance.
I have some ideas on how to improve this and will be posting them in a different thread.

I do agree with the previous sentiment about the placement of the T.

Chris Von Wahlde wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: What Raven said.

If one of the stamps is in one of the "unique" rooms, this problem automatically fixes itself.

This seems like a good solution as well.

I think this is a decent idea.

Bear in mind though that for those that do both Puzzle and Combat runs, it means that going through one and knowing the solution does not mean you will get the treasure stamp in the other (since the two rooms will be different).

Incognito wrote: Bear in mind though that for those that do both Puzzle and Combat runs, it means that going through one and knowing the solution does not mean you will get the treasure stamp in the other (since the two rooms will be different).

I would consider this a feature, not a bug.

Druegar: I agree that some folks don't understand the difference between Combat oriented and Puzzle Oriented Dungeons, but the folks I heard grumbling were less from the "ignorance" crowd, and more from the "Min-maxing our GenCon time, doing just one run and aiming for Max treasure" crowd.

I am certain that as a Coordinator, you dealt with more grumbly and/or ignorant players than I did, so your sample size is probably more representative of the whole than mine.

Raven wrote:

Incognito wrote: Bear in mind though that for those that do both Puzzle and Combat runs, it means that going through one and knowing the solution does not mean you will get the treasure stamp in the other (since the two rooms will be different).

I would consider this a feature, not a bug.

Yup

Raven wrote: I am certain that as a Coordinator, you dealt with more grumbly and/or ignorant players than I did

Oddly enough, none of the complaints people approached me with had to do with PvC. My astonishment came from overhearing snippets of conversations while walking through the storyscape. I was genuinely taken aback by the number of times I heard comments akin to, "Um, hello! This was a combat run, why did we have to solve puzzles!?!"
[heavy sigh]

It would be nice to not have the room overlaps as we go on. I always assumed that it was a cost/resource conserving mechanism that was necessary because TD couldn't field 7 unique rooms for each dungeon. it seems we're getting close to the point where that isn't the case anymore. It might be good to start eliminating the overlap rooms, if for no other reason than that would likely encourage people to do both P/C runs. I can see now the people who feel it's not worth it given that you're essentially paying to see some of the same rooms again.

henwy wrote: It would be nice to not have the room overlaps as we go on. I always assumed that it was a cost/resource conserving mechanism that was necessary because TD couldn't field 7 unique rooms for each dungeon. it seems we're getting close to the point where that isn't the case anymore. It might be good to start eliminating the overlap rooms, if for no other reason than that would likely encourage people to do both P/C runs. I can see now the people who feel it's not worth it given that you're essentially paying to see some of the same rooms again.

At which point they really become 4 different dungeons (which should yield 4 different XP). I think the two dungeons of the same theme (Zephyr or Viper) should remain mostly the same.

Incognito wrote:

henwy wrote: It would be nice to not have the room overlaps as we go on. I always assumed that it was a cost/resource conserving mechanism that was necessary because TD couldn't field 7 unique rooms for each dungeon. it seems we're getting close to the point where that isn't the case anymore. It might be good to start eliminating the overlap rooms, if for no other reason than that would likely encourage people to do both P/C runs. I can see now the people who feel it's not worth it given that you're essentially paying to see some of the same rooms again.

At which point they really become 4 different dungeons (which should yield 4 different XP). I think the two dungeons of the same theme (Zephyr or Viper) should remain mostly the same.

Honestly I hope we re-visit the idea of getting rid of the puzzle/combat distinction next year. I have strong anecdotal evidence that my friends would prefer it . Personally I wouldn't do any less runs but it would mean less that you "had" to do in order to see everything and make getting tickets a little easier for everyone.

But ya, if we did end up with 4 distinct dungeons I would hope for 4 distinct xps. Hope we dont as it might kill Jeff but man what a way to go.