TOPIC: Best Classes for True Grind?

Incognito wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: Translation: it sucks to be the bard in grind.

Except for the fact that you are the most important member of the party!

Sure, for everyone else bard is awesome, but it still sucks for the guy who IS the bard.
"Hey everyone, i died again."
"Oh, i feed the bard a PoDD."
"i get back up and start singing again."
"Monster attacks...the BARD!"

kurtreznor wrote:

Incognito wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: Translation: it sucks to be the bard in grind.

Except for the fact that you are the most important member of the party!

Sure, for everyone else bard is awesome, but it still sucks for the guy who IS the bard.
"Hey everyone, i died again."
"Oh, i feed the bard a PoDD."
"i get back up and start singing again."
"Monster attacks...the BARD!"

Of course, after these series of posts I expect some players will start to go for an AC build for the Bard. Or the Paladin will be guarding the Bard over the Wizard.

But eventually the monsters will devise even more devious schemes to counter that.

And so the cycle of evolution continues....

But really. Considering all the noise the Bard is creating with his screeching and caterwauling, is it really that surprising that he attracts a lot of the monster's attention?

I'm personally used to "You did how much damage? *Monster name* attacks the Elf Wizard for... 25 damage"

Incognito wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: As somebody who is planning to play both Bard and Ranger next year, but who hasn't played Bard before, what makes Bard so powerful especially in Nightmare? Is it simply his ability to, using various instruments, both attack or use scrolls and also help everybody else with + hit and + damage?

Bardsong. It is all about Bardsong.

I think Raven quoted it best when she mentioned the noticeable change in hits (against Sandy the Troll I believe) between the times when the Bard was singing and when the Bard was not singing.

At upper levels level, you have access to Widseth's Lute and/or Briano's Bodhran, which essentially means you get Bardsong for free. That +2/+4 goes a LONG LONG way. Easily the strongest ability in the game in Grind, and why the clever monsters in Grind commonly attack the Bard if he is vulnerable. So Bards beware!

I figured the secret was the Lore check

Gotta have some means of healing - Either Cleric Druid Paladin... or a total throwaway 5-gallon bucket of rare healing plus PoDD's out the wazoo.
If you run with Maxed out Wiz peeps - you still need additional throwaway damage. The spells eventually run out. Last lots of bashers with mighty weapons and strength bonuses maxed.

Just for min starting.

Yeah a bard with a hellishly hard to hit build - that'd be one for the dream team!

Oh one more thing about Grind.

Eric

is

EVIL ! ! !



That is all.

Let me correct that for you:

Aaron Hydrick wrote: Oh one more thing about Grind.

Eric

is

EVIL ! ! !

MISUNDERSTOOD ! ! !



That is all.

Incognito wrote: Let me correct that for you:

Aaron Hydrick wrote: Oh one more thing about Grind.

Eric

is

EVIL ! ! !

MISUNDERSTOOD ! ! !



That is all.

That's what I said! MISUNDERSTOOD...

pronounced - e v i l...

Aaron Hydrick wrote: Gotta have some means of healing - Either Cleric Druid Paladin... or a total throwaway 5-gallon bucket of rare healing plus PoDD's out the wazoo.
If you run with Maxed out Wiz peeps - you still need additional throwaway damage. The spells eventually run out. Last lots of bashers with mighty weapons and strength bonuses maxed.

Just for min starting.

Yeah a bard with a hellishly hard to hit build - that'd be one for the dream team!

Just don't get hit, then you don't need any healing

Incognito's original post was a bit confusing at first: I thought it was saying that the various classes were inherently different at different levels. Now that I understand that he is saying that the token possibilities are different it makes sense. So really I think it is more "the best builds with all available tokens" is the nightmare list, and the best builds possible with purples is the hardcore list, etc.

Perhaps what I just said is less clear

Being that I am working on both an awesome Ranger build for combat (which I was planning on using for TrueGrind) plus a Bard build for Puzzle w/ Troubadour (and as a backup for combat), when I saw bard at the top I wanted to do some builds. I agree that a Bard who can stay alive could be really helpful in a Nightmare grind run.

Both builds have some stuff in common: Cloak of Shadowskin (immune to first melee hit), Viper Strike Shirt (-3 dmg from melee), SRoEC (-10 dmg fire/cold/shock/sonic, 3pts retribution dmg), Topaz Trilliant (-10 darkrift dmg), Black Pearl (negates magical to-hit bonuses against player), Pouch of Tulz, Druegar's Death Die, Figurine of Power: Cat (1 save re-roll per game), Charm of Synergy for up to +10 HP.

On top of all of that, here is my best-of-class ranger build: two Asher's +5 Viper Strike Fangs for average damage of 51pts/round with a +15 to-hit. Io's +4 Ultra Keen Slayer Bow for +16 to-hit and 21.25 average damage with criticals on 18-20. AC is 35/36, HP is 44, saving throws: fort=15, reflex=22, will=13. My focus was on a balance of AC and strength.

For the Bard instead we get: Asher's +5 for avg damage of 16.5/round with a +11 to-hit. +2 Keen Longbow for average damage of 6.5 and a +10 to-hit with criticals on 19 or 20. AC is 38/36, HP is 40, saving throws: fort=12, reflex=19, will=16. My focus was on AC. Obviously all available instruments plus Shield of the Scholar plus Hat of Healing (Crown of Might could be better perhaps). It feels like cheating but I think it is allowed: I have both the +4 and +6 Ring of Protection.

Thoughts on these builds and which is a better character to have on True Grind?

For reference here are the tokens for Ranger:
Asher's +5 Viper Strike Fang
Asher's +5 Viper Strike Fang
Io's +4 Ultra Keen Slayer Bow
Archer's Buckler
Twolf's Helm of the Wild
Sniper Spectacles
Earcuff of Intellect
Earcuff of Understanding
Stu-pendous Pendant
Pharacus' Greater Cloak of Destiny
Cloak of Shadowskin
Viper Strike Shirt
Mithral Chainmail
TaMor's +4 Mithral Bracers
Gloves of Glory
Rolland's Ring of Protection +6
Ring of Frost
Supreme Ring of Elemental Command
Surtr's Girdle of Fire Giant Strength
Boots of the North Wind
Ioun Stone Onyx Cube
Ioun Stone Topaz Trilliant
Ioun Stone Black Pearl
Ioun Stone Beryl Prism
Ioun Stone Quicksilver Cube
Rod of Seven Parts (Complete)
Quiver of Anointment
Druegar's Death Die
Pouch of Tulz
Charm of Synergy
Draco-Lich Claw Charm
Charm of Brooching
Figurine of Power: Cat

And the tokens for Bard:
Asher's +5 Viper Strike Fang
Shield of the Scholar
+2 Keen Longbow
Archer's Buckler
Hat of Healing
Sniper Spectacles
Earcuff of Intellect
Earcuff of Understanding
Stu-pendous Pendant
Pharacus' Greater Cloak of Destiny
Cloak of Shadowskin
Viper Strike Shirt
Mithral Chainmail
TaMor's +4 Mithral Bracers
Gloves of Glory
Supreme Ring of Elemental Command
Rolland's Ring of Protection +6
Ring of Protection +4
Surtr's Girdle of Fire Giant Strength
Boots of Might
Ioun Stone Topaz Trilliant
Ioun Stone Beryl Prism
Ioun Stone Quicksilver Cube
Ioun Stone Topaz Sphere
Ioun Stone Black Pearl
Rod of Seven Parts (Complete)
Druegar's Death Die
Briano's Blessed Bodhran
Widseth's Mystical Lute
Pouch of Tulz
Lyre of Lore
Quiver of Anointment
Charm of Brooching
Charm of Synergy
Charm of Heroism
Figurine of Power: Cat