TOPIC: Idea for GenCon 2016: Newbie Runs

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: I have been on some mixed newbie/experienced runs where I believe the experienced players negatively impacted the enjoyment by the new players. We also have this report: truedungeon.com/forum?func=view&catid=580&id=228793#228793 .

Additionally, I ran into many players who said they'd always wanted to try TD but never could get tickets, were afraid to just jump in, etc.

Similar to the Team Synergy runs, what do people think about experienced players sponsoring newbie runs? We find 5-10 experienced players who each buy out a full run and then resell those slots to first timers. You would run on normal mode, you would not spoil any puzzles you may already know, etc.

We then advertise these slots via places like Reddit, BGG, etc, and try to fill them with new players. There is a risk that you end up with some extra tickets so you should be willing to ghost some of the slots if necessary.

Thoughts?

PS - if you do this, please don't completely talk over the training room coach like a few veterans did to me

I actually asked Jeff about a similar idea this year - he said gencon' terms of service and rules on reselling tickets make this a no go.

To get something like this rolling I think true adventures would have to arrange it, similar to how they arranged pre-sale runs for some people this year as a token buying incentive (I forget the details).

In summary, love the idea, in practice you are not permitted to resell td tickets.

I don't see how this is any different than what we all do each year: buy a block of 10 and then collect funds to cover 9 of them.

Kirk Bauer wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: I have been on some mixed newbie/experienced runs where I believe the experienced players negatively impacted the enjoyment by the new players. We also have this report: truedungeon.com/forum?func=view&catid=580&id=228793#228793 .

Additionally, I ran into many players who said they'd always wanted to try TD but never could get tickets, were afraid to just jump in, etc.

Similar to the Team Synergy runs, what do people think about experienced players sponsoring newbie runs? We find 5-10 experienced players who each buy out a full run and then resell those slots to first timers. You would run on normal mode, you would not spoil any puzzles you may already know, etc.

We then advertise these slots via places like Reddit, BGG, etc, and try to fill them with new players. There is a risk that you end up with some extra tickets so you should be willing to ghost some of the slots if necessary.

Thoughts?

PS - if you do this, please don't completely talk over the training room coach like a few veterans did to me

I actually asked Jeff about a similar idea this year - he said gencon' terms of service and rules on reselling tickets make this a no go.

To get something like this rolling I think true adventures would have to arrange it, similar to how they arranged pre-sale runs for some people this year as a token buying incentive (I forget the details).

In summary, love the idea, in practice you are not permitted to resell td tickets.

I don't see how this is any different than what we all do each year: buy a block of 10 and then collect funds to cover 9 of them.

I suspect there is a very fine line between "reselling", and "getting towther a group of like-minded associates who agree to repay the costs". Probably best not to draw the eye of GenCon down upon it.

Fiddy wrote:
I suspect there is a very fine line between "reselling", and "getting towther a group of like-minded associates who agree to repay the costs". Probably best not to draw the eye of GenCon down upon it.

Quoted for truth.

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

quip wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

quip wrote: Perhaps an opposite strategy of the previous Nightmare slots could be sold.
One of the failures of the Nightmare slots was that New players potentially bought Nightmare tickets.

At some frequency on the hour (once every 2 hours, perhaps?), is a slot dedicated to new players, labeled "New Players Run Only". A veteran should know better than to buy a "New Players Run Only" ticket. Perhaps these wouldn't fill up immediately, giving new players a better chance to get tickets.

Establish a deadline, say one week before the end of registration, after which, kind-hearted veterans could buy any leftover tickets (hopefully there would be none anyway).

it didnt work for nightmare tickets...it wont work for this either...vets will buy because the other slots sold out

I would hope vets would have more sense than to do that.

probably not, if it is the only slots left and not filled..they need that run..i will bet money there would be vets doing it

hmmm, wonder if this is where it could also say on the registration "You will not be allowed to equip greater than rare tokens other than treasure enhancing on this run".
That way if a vet doesn't have a run, they can still get it. If it's their only run, they shouldn't be able to spoil any puzzles for new players. A vet should have no complaints about being nerfed on a run that specifically says it's for new players and tells them they will be limited on equipment when they registered.

We could also add a Volunteer "flogger". Vets running on the run who have done other runs could be flogged.
Or we could have pillories (stocks) in the storyscape for offending vets (joking)

I would just limit treasure enhancers (with the exception of a Rare or less rarity like the Lenses of Fortune) as not available for such a Newbie Run; it's always possible for a 00 pack to be given at the start.

Picc wrote:

Fiddy wrote:
I suspect there is a very fine line between "reselling", and "getting towther a group of like-minded associates who agree to repay the costs". Probably best not to draw the eye of GenCon down upon it.

Quoted for truth.

Well perhaps I shouldn't have used the word "reselling", that wasn't my intention. My intention was that somebody like me buys the 10 tickets and then finds a group of 9 newbies to run with me. Each of those newbies reimburses me for a part of the money I spent acquiring the run.

Here's an easier thing to do - have the treasure draws for a newbie run be equal to the lowest treasure draw among the group. If that's part of the description, it strongly discourages most veterans from buying out the slot unless they're able to equip a party with a ton of treasure enhancers. I know that a few folks on the forum can do that, but that enhances the fun of the new players when they get to draw more treasure at the end.

It'd still need some tweaking (probably no ghosting, so it doesn't become used for solo runs; still need something to keep a full group of veterans out as well), but it's a decent start.

Kirk Bauer wrote:

Picc wrote:

Fiddy wrote:
I suspect there is a very fine line between "reselling", and "getting towther a group of like-minded associates who agree to repay the costs". Probably best not to draw the eye of GenCon down upon it.

Quoted for truth.

Well perhaps I shouldn't have used the word "reselling", that wasn't my intention. My intention was that somebody like me buys the 10 tickets and then finds a group of 9 newbies to run with me. Each of those newbies reimburses me for a part of the money I spent acquiring the run.

Yeah - I'm sure it happens - I'm just repeating what I was told by Jeff, and to me what is pretty clearly expressed by Gen Con in their terms of use if you go digging through them.

The mods on the official gencon forums bring the hammer down hard on any sales or even exchanges of tickets other than like for like in different time slots.

Institutionalize the idea here, and advertising it to players, has the potential to draw gen cons attention to the activity that the might otherwise hand wave away (eg one person vying out a run for their friends who reimburse)

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote:

Picc wrote:

Fiddy wrote:
I suspect there is a very fine line between "reselling", and "getting towther a group of like-minded associates who agree to repay the costs". Probably best not to draw the eye of GenCon down upon it.

Quoted for truth.

Well perhaps I shouldn't have used the word "reselling", that wasn't my intention. My intention was that somebody like me buys the 10 tickets and then finds a group of 9 newbies to run with me. Each of those newbies reimburses me for a part of the money I spent acquiring the run.

Yeah - I'm sure it happens - I'm just repeating what I was told by Jeff, and to me what is pretty clearly expressed by Gen Con in their terms of use if you go digging through them.

The mods on the official gencon forums bring the hammer down hard on any sales or even exchanges of tickets other than like for like in different time slots.

Institutionalize the idea here, and advertising it to players, has the potential to draw gen cons attention to the activity that the might otherwise hand wave away (eg one person vying out a run for their friends who reimburse)

Given the way the GenCon registration site interface works, I suspect the way they divide "running with friends and getting reimbursed" versus "reselling" is whether you yourself are using one of the 10 tickets or not. It clearly allows you to buy tickets for other people along with your ticket, and those people can even be anonymous as far as the system is concerned.

Posting my comment from a similar thread...

Rather than staggering party start times, perhaps the start times could be adjusted so that two or three runs start at the same time and players can be directed to go to room 1 and 2 for normal difficulty and room 3 for non-normal (hardcore or nightmare as determined by the party). The non-normal party should be ready to start first and the other parties would follow when ready.

Admittedly, this will not completely solve the issued of mixed parties but it would require very little adjustment to the overall system while providing previous players a chance try something harder and helping ensure new players run with their peers.

Worst case scenario, room 3 (non-normal difficulty) does not reach capacity and new players would be placed with the party thus necessitating a normal run (what currently happens now).

Not just newbie runs. My wife and I met people that couldn't get tickets, then I see a groups ghosting multiple characters to get extra treasure pulls themselves. This is an issue IMO. Great you can solo, 3 man, or 5 man a dungeon but the fact is if TD didn't offer the treasure pulls for the ghost would you really spend that much money on tickets to solo, 3 man or 5 man a run? I predict that it would probably be a no.

I would purpose to get new players involved is stop allowing ghost pulls. I have done ghost in the past but now I see people that have been trying for years to get in a run and can't.

So this year our extra tickets we walked around asking people if they wanted to do True Dungeon (we had a person drop out) so we had an extra ticket. I gave them a choice as new players, they can keep their treasure pulls and pay for the ticket or let us have their pulls.

Why is this different than ghosting you might ask, it gets a new player involved in TD! We ended up giving him ALL the rares, uncommons, and commons for the class he wanted to play from all the pulls. He bought the other ticket we had available later on and we did the same again thing again giving him all the tokens. He now wants to play all TD. I call that a success!

I really like the idea of some kind of mini/sponsored TD runs for newbies. It is hard since they are under the confines of the convention. Maybe if enough people suggest the Mini to Jeff it would get the ball rolling. I know a lot of new people stopped by the Hostess/check in station asking what all of this was and it's a bit of a shame that all I can do is describe it a little enthusiastically instead of saying, well you can sign up/buy a ticket for this mini dungeon so you can see for yourself.