TOPIC: New Newsletter

Druegar wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: it hurts my artifact..so yea i dont like it..i didnt like the change in HoP last year because it hurt it too...

I don't understand how it hurts. neither change adversely affects the amount of treasure you get from your artifact .

• 2014: Your treasure was allocated as if you got three stamps and therefore got a total of 9 chips from a HoP. Other bonuses worked normally.
• 2015: Your treasure was allocated as if you got three stamps and therefore got a total of 9 chips from a HoP (or the HoP portion of a CoA). Other bonuses worked normally.
• 2016: Your treasure will be allocated as if you got three stamps and therefore you'll get a total of 9 chips from a HoP. Other bonuses will work normally.

I think Laz means that before his artifact guaranteed him stamps "ensures the owner is allotted treasure as if his party earned at least three treasure stamps per adventure." There was a cost in the creation of this ability and now that ability does nothing.

Mike Steele wrote: It's still a game, we're still actively solving each room.

Maybe - only if that is desired by all 10 players. There is no incentive other then "you solved" it. For some that means they don't need to cooperate. You can now have a team puzzle that one person just doesn't want to participate.

Dave wrote: Now that treasure is no longer an issue, I'd almost rather fail and take the push damage than be handed the answer.

Agreed - and you may get to because a team member isn't participating.

Again, I understand why the change is being made but we may see feedback next year about people not participating or caring.

Ed

You could have that prior to 2016 though, either in rooms that had no treasure or by someone that doesn't care about treasure stamps. There will always be bad party members. Hopefully they just are not in your party.

Druegar wrote: I don't understand how it hurts. neither change adversely affects the amount of treasure you get from your artifact .

Because his artifact clearly gave him something no one else would get (excluding prestige Bard). Now everyone gets that "power". If suddenly everyone got +6 saves for all classes you can bet people who made Pharacus Greater Cloak of Destiny would be complaining about the loss of value. Or if everyone suddenly got to slide two pucks Rangers and Monks would complain. Something only one person has that suddenly everyone get is clearly a loss of value.

Ed

jedibcg wrote: There was a cost in the creation of this ability and now that ability does nothing.

Fair 'nuff. That makes sense.

jedibcg wrote: You could have that prior to 2016 though, either in rooms that had no treasure or by someone that doesn't care about treasure stamps. There will always be bad party members. Hopefully they just are not in your party.

Two thoughts:

1. A good response to the negative feedback this year.
2. Now there is little incentive because they are get treasure regardless of attitude, participation, or team work.

Ed

MasterED wrote: Because his artifact clearly gave him something no one else would get (excluding prestige Bard).

If the something nobody else got was a guarantee, then I agree. But if his party got all three stamps, the net result remains unchanged.

MasterED wrote:

jedibcg wrote: You could have that prior to 2016 though, either in rooms that had no treasure or by someone that doesn't care about treasure stamps. There will always be bad party members. Hopefully they just are not in your party.

Two thoughts:

1. A good response to the negative feedback this year.
2. Now there is little incentive because they are get treasure regardless of attitude, participation, or team work.

Ed

So that same player was only helping you in 3 out of the 7 rooms before is what I am saying. A bad player is a bad player.

Druegar wrote:

MasterED wrote: Because his artifact clearly gave him something no one else would get (excluding prestige Bard).

If the something nobody else got was a guarantee, then I agree. But if his party got all three stamps, the net result remains unchanged.

"ensures the owner is allotted treasure as if his party earned at least three treasure stamps per adventure." <- is a "power". No one else had that "power" in pre-2016 (excluding prestige Bard). For 2016 now everyone has that "power". If only one person has something and suddenly everyone does it lowers the value. If you were the only one with a Porsche 918 Spyder and suddenly everyone had one and you tried to sell yours you wouldn't get very much - hence the value of your Porsche greatly decreased.

I agree the Net difference for him regarding treasure is the same - he got 3 last year and gets 3 next year. The Value of his artifact is lower though.

Ed

jedibcg wrote:

MasterED wrote:

jedibcg wrote: You could have that prior to 2016 though, either in rooms that had no treasure or by someone that doesn't care about treasure stamps. There will always be bad party members. Hopefully they just are not in your party.

Two thoughts:

1. A good response to the negative feedback this year.
2. Now there is little incentive because they are get treasure regardless of attitude, participation, or team work.

Ed

So that same player was only helping you in 3 out of the 7 rooms before is what I am saying. A bad player is a bad player.

Yes. Exactly this. 4 rooms in the dungeon will be completely unchanged. Did anyone witness players walking into those 4 rooms and saying "Not a treasure room? I'm taking a nap, let me know when you solve it"? If not, then why do you think players will start doing that now...

I think the change is fine. I enjoy the challenge of each room whether or not there is a coin attached, and now I also get the fun of the lottery at the end to see if I get some cool tokens for future adventures. I don't need those two things attached.

-Scot

Wait a second... is this a one of a kind token? Because if so it seems like that's something that can be addressed rather easily. And even if not, this seems like a simple fix for those groups lucky enough to have one.

Anyway, I'm glad to see the changes. As one of those new players who walked away with a single token, knowing that trial & error and outside the box thinking won't be punished (beyond possible damage or other effects) is great to hear.

It's nice to feel that feedback has been heard, and my group is definitely looking forward to coming back.

It seems a little out of focus to assume that people were buying expensive tokens to ensure that they got all of the treasure stamps.

I don't believe that the power level of a player's tokens had any direct effect on the number of treasure stamps they ultimately acquire.

The number of treasure stamps available was the same regardless of the dungeon difficulty level. That point alone disconnects the token power levels from the treasure stamp acquisition process.

I personally think TD sacrifices some level of innovation and imagination in the dungeon by focusing too much on tokens, so I am a supporter of token deemphasis, but that has nothing to do with trying to keep new players from feeling disadvantaged when they first try TD. I think the decision to normalize the number of treasure chips coming out of a dungeon run will help new players enjoy the experience.