TOPIC: Need FB: Change to Cumulative Penalty Limimitation

Due to the increased number of tokens with stat penalities, it was pointed out that because of the Cumulative Penalty Limitation (CPL), one could rather easily equip some of the aforementioned tokens without incurring their negative effects.

This is the current CPL:
No single statistic can be reduced by more than 6 points. This limit applies to magic items or spells that affect ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma), Saving Throws, Armor Class, Maximum Hit Points, To Hit modifiers, Damage modifiers, etc. No matter how many magic items or spells have been used, no single stat/ability on a specific victim can be reduced more than 6 points. This rule applies to both player characters and monsters.

This is the proposed CPL:
After entering the adventure, no single statistic can be reduced by more than 6 points. This limit applies to spells or effects that affect ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma), Saving Throws, Armor Class, Maximum Hit Points, To Hit modifiers, Damage modifiers, etc. No matter how many temporary effects or spells have been used, no single stat/ability on a specific victim can be reduced more than 6 points. This rule applies to both player characters and monsters.

This does not apply to permanent items used by the character before beginning the adventure. Even if you have equipped various items that result in more than a 6-point penalty, you must endure the full penalty. Additional temporary penalties may be incurred in the adventure, but those additional penalties cannot reduce you more than 6 more points. E.g., if you equipped the following items you would suffer a -8 to your Reflex saving throws:

• Helm of the Boar (-4 Reflex)
• Oakskin Medallion (-1 to all saves)
• Redoubt Mail (-2 Reflex)
• Wicked Charm (-1 to all saves)

Once inside the adventure, you could suffer additional Reflex penalties, up to a grand total of -14.

TLDR: The CPL will apply only to temporary penalties, not permanent ones.

Please constructively comment.

In your example, the player would enter the dungeon at -8 Reflex saves, correct? Once inside the dungeon, the player could not have any additional penalties adding up to more than -6 to that Reflex save?

If this is how it works, I have zero problems. If a player wants to take that chance, so be it. I would rather they not gain a benefit from trying to shoot all of the angles.

Makes sense to me. I bet that is how the current character generators do it anyway.

Though I am still waiting to hear if we will have new player cards for WYC and what the ruling on the Focus weapons was all about....just saying.

I believe this change is in the spirit of the original CPL and am in 100% agreement with it.

Ed

MasterED wrote: I believe this change is in the spirit of the original CPL and am in 100% agreement with it.

Ed

Seems fine.

I don't recall ever losing any stats in the dungeon, so this new rule makes me nervous. My lucky streak may be at an end.

I think this rule makes sense and is good.

I have a related question, which is do attributes, saves, or AC have any absolute minimums (e.g. 0, or maybe 1 in the case of attributes)? Or can you accumulate actually negative saves/ac/attributes?

I forsee a new kind of prestige run: enfeebled!

Brad Mortensen wrote:

MasterED wrote: I believe this change is in the spirit of the original CPL and am in 100% agreement with it.

Ed

Seems fine.

I don't recall ever losing any stats in the dungeon, so this new rule makes me nervous. My lucky streak may be at an end.

Lots of voluntary ways to do this:

tokendb.com/token/potion-creeper-stout/
tokendb.com/token/potion-dwarven-ale/
tokendb.com/token/potion-dwarven-doppelbock/
tokendb.com/token/potion-orcish-stout/

Matthew Hayward wrote: do attributes, saves, or AC have any absolute minimums (e.g. 0, or maybe 1 in the case of attributes)?

Kinda. If you have an ability score that hits zero, bad things happen. E.g., a CON of 0 means you're dead.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

MasterED wrote: I believe this change is in the spirit of the original CPL and am in 100% agreement with it.

Ed

Seems fine.

I don't recall ever losing any stats in the dungeon, so this new rule makes me nervous. My lucky streak may be at an end.

Lots of voluntary ways to do this:

tokendb.com/token/potion-creeper-stout/
tokendb.com/token/potion-dwarven-ale/
tokendb.com/token/potion-dwarven-doppelbock/
tokendb.com/token/potion-orcish-stout/

I meant involuntarily, which is what I thought the word "victim" implied. But I could be wrong.

If you choose to drink Dwarven Ale, I don't consider you a victim.

I'm 100% in favor of this change.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

MasterED wrote: I believe this change is in the spirit of the original CPL and am in 100% agreement with it.

Ed

Seems fine.

I don't recall ever losing any stats in the dungeon, so this new rule makes me nervous. My lucky streak may be at an end.

Lots of voluntary ways to do this:

tokendb.com/token/potion-creeper-stout/
tokendb.com/token/potion-dwarven-ale/
tokendb.com/token/potion-dwarven-doppelbock/
tokendb.com/token/potion-orcish-stout/

I meant involuntarily, which is what I thought the word "victim" implied. But I could be wrong.

If you choose to drink Dwarven Ale, I don't consider you a victim.

Aah - that makes sense. I agree - the only "victims" I've seen in that sense are monsters on the receiving end of Seylah's Cestus or a few other effects like that - and they don't have to worry about pre-game token setup .

This totally makes sense. I haven't seen anyone yet come out complaining about this change, so that meakes me suspicious.