TOPIC: 2016 Character Card Pics < Closed, See New Thread

So when druids and clerics run out of spells from their card on nightmare are they useless?

There are two UR that provide extra spells am I right?
tokendb.com/token/ring-of-spell-storing/
tokendb.com/token/carters-tome-of-insight/
Are there others I am forgetting?

It is at NM (not counting grind) that spells may run out right for wizards we are being told correct? On nightmare I don’t know any class that doesn't need some UR's to be effective.

Ro-gan wrote: I have no idea why so many are complaining about the Wizards being ineffectual in melee and when out of spells.

I've played both wizards in Hardcore and NM many times in the past. Never once did I run out of spells or have a problem in melee. My wizard classes are fairly balanced between spell use and melee. And, never once did I ever feel useless in the Rooms. Whether combat or puzzle.

If you spell casters out there are running out of spells before finishing a Run then don't blame the wizard's character card. Blame the other Party members. Seriously. If the Party is relying on the spell lobbers to finish the monsters then they aren't pulling their weight in combat slides. That's not a wizard spell use issue, that's an inept Party issue.

The wizard classes look perfect to me. They are perfectly balanced with the rest of the characters. Especially since the Saves and DC checks have been all but done away with. I never did like them because ever since the most recent power creeps the past couple years the Monsters could save when even rolling a "2."

I agree... I've never had problems running out of spells and easily keep pace in melee. It's all about being balanced. I also use very few consumables... Couple wands and a scroll or two every so often. I guess with the new Elf Wizard Polymorph ability that will change, but it's a good change.

I've never had trouble running low on spells, except one time in Grind. I was just thinking of something that might balance the two wizards - the Elf now has the cool polymorph ability to make him/her more effective in melee with the use of consumable - I think the Human should have something for balance (more spells, wand bonus, INT bonus, etc.).

bpsymington wrote: I've never had trouble running low on spells, except one time in Grind. I was just thinking of something that might balance the two wizards - the Elf now has the cool polymorph ability to make him/her more effective in melee with the use of consumable - I think the Human should have something for balance (more spells, wand bonus, INT bonus, etc.).

I do agree something with the INT would be nice.

I can't remember if I said this before or not but perhaps INT could grant damage bonus to wands?

As one of the resident wizards, I find in (Nightmare) dungeons I don't run out of spells. I try to pay attention to what we're fighting and do maximum hurtage. It helps if the bard does a lore check at the start to find weaknesses. It is easy to run out in Grind though, especially Epic. I churned through a lot of scrolls due to double-casting which is fairly effective but costly damage-wise.

In Grind a lot of other classes are using consumables to increase long-term effectiveness too, so I'm not sure that's a problem.

There has been more of a concern that we have several melee classes able to out-damage the wizards in Nightmare. Traditionally the wizards are supposed to be the glass cannons, able to belt out some big damage - moreso than melee - quickly, then be very brittle. But a fully tricked-out wizard with MEC and some eldritch and focus bonuses at 5th level is going to see one spell at 60 (maybe 63 or 64). I've seen melee hitting for 70 to 100 - NOT all the time - but enough that it seems like something got unbalanced somewhere along the way.

Lodestone (KH) wrote: There has been more of a concern that we have several melee classes able to out-damage the wizards in Nightmare. Traditionally the wizards are supposed to be the glass cannons, able to belt out some big damage - moreso than melee - quickly, then be very brittle. But a fully tricked-out wizard with MEC and some eldritch and focus bonuses at 5th level is going to see one spell at 60 (maybe 63 or 64). I've seen melee hitting for 70 to 100 - NOT all the time - but enough that it seems like something got unbalanced somewhere along the way.

I have it on good authority that TD is a team event. We shouldn't focus on individual classes.

Ed

MasterED wrote:

Lodestone (KH) wrote: There has been more of a concern that we have several melee classes able to out-damage the wizards in Nightmare. Traditionally the wizards are supposed to be the glass cannons, able to belt out some big damage - moreso than melee - quickly, then be very brittle. But a fully tricked-out wizard with MEC and some eldritch and focus bonuses at 5th level is going to see one spell at 60 (maybe 63 or 64). I've seen melee hitting for 70 to 100 - NOT all the time - but enough that it seems like something got unbalanced somewhere along the way.

I have it on good authority that TD is a team event. We shouldn't focus on individual classes.

Ed

This!! /\

MasterED wrote:

Lodestone (KH) wrote: There has been more of a concern that we have several melee classes able to out-damage the wizards in Nightmare. Traditionally the wizards are supposed to be the glass cannons, able to belt out some big damage - moreso than melee - quickly, then be very brittle. But a fully tricked-out wizard with MEC and some eldritch and focus bonuses at 5th level is going to see one spell at 60 (maybe 63 or 64). I've seen melee hitting for 70 to 100 - NOT all the time - but enough that it seems like something got unbalanced somewhere along the way.

I have it on good authority that TD is a team event. We shouldn't focus on individual classes.

Ed

Well said.

MasterED wrote: I have it on good authority that TD is a team event. We shouldn't focus on individual classes.

I want my team to find me irreplaceable.

On the flip side, nobody clears a room full of monsters like a Wizard.

Possibly over simple solution. Why not just raise the base damage of some of tye wizard spells then.

Or have INT add to spell damage, I guess WIS coukd add to healing.

Or give the wizard an on card power so they can choose to remove the save from a single spell

Or for next year

Elixer of memory Recast a spell you cast last round.

Thank you all again for the good feedback! I am closing this thread to open another one with the final images. We have tweaked a few things. Please see newly created thread for the final images.