TOPIC: Lack of Signage and Food choices in Lucas Oil

MetaphoricDragon wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: if we could have shuffled people back into story scape and not out and around, trading would have been a lot better(even though Dennis and I almost got our badges taken for trading tokens(yes we were really trading and not breaking any rules)

O_O wow, that is crazy!

In the storyscape? How did that play out? Was it GenCon staff or convention center staff?

Harlax wrote:

MetaphoricDragon wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: if we could have shuffled people back into story scape and not out and around, trading would have been a lot better(even though Dennis and I almost got our badges taken for trading tokens(yes we were really trading and not breaking any rules)

O_O wow, that is crazy!

In the storyscape? How did that play out? Was it GenCon staff or convention center staff?

It was out where check in was. Ut was gen con staff.
This lady wanted to take them but her boss came up and asked what we were doing.
I said trading tokens for gold or other tokens. He said the other lady wanted to take our badges.
I said for what. We are trading tokens not doing anything against gen con rules ( I think even under my breath said, that you knew of). If you are going to
Take
Our badges for trading, then the magic people better be having this done as well.
The guy said if we are going to sell tokens we had to do it in the story scape. Which I believe is against gencon rules too. But he said it.

waitadarncottonpickinmomment there

since when was it EVER against con rules to make trades, whether for other tokens or for cash? Heck, you see people working out trades for boardgames and other things of that nature in the halls of the convention center.

Adam Pillari wrote: waitadarncottonpickinmomment there

since when was it EVER against con rules to make trades, whether for other tokens or for cash? Heck, you see people working out trades for boardgames and other things of that nature in the halls of the convention center.

It is super-duper-mega-mega-king-kong against the rules to make cash exchanges at Gen Con outside of rented booth spaces without explicit permission from Gen Con:

N.1 - "Companies, organizations, or individuals selling or promoting products or services at Gen Con must rent exhibit space and must confine such activities to the space so rented. Exceptions from this requirement must be obtained in writing from Show Management prior to the start of Gen Con."

files.gencon.com/2016.ExhibitorAppendixA.pdf

They can and will take your badge and boot you from the con for selling for cash.


Bartering is a gray area - it's not explicitly allowed in the Gen Con rules, but Gen Con doesn't seem to enforce any prohibitions on trading in the magic area, or against the Boardgame geek exchange, or True Dungeon token trading.

And there's the fine print. Wasn't looking in the exhibitor appendix since, well, not an exhibitor. Thanks for linking that.

Now, since I guess their logic is that being participants of TD, we're therefor covered by the "exhibitor" title, would setting up an area specifically for trading and/or token sales make it less of a grey area? I know we used to have the tavern, and while we did have tables in the storyscape....the lighting was downright lousy.

Some signage right beside the exhibit hall saying that TD and the Anime was down this way would have been nice. Some signage behind the check-in counter to say "keep going this way" would also have been nice.

Our group liked the new space. The distance from Hall I (exhibit hall) to the new space was pretty much the same as the distance from the Hall I to Hall A. I understand that LOS was farther away from potential food sources, but that didn't effect our party. Well, except for my buddy who was GMing the Spidaur room and had his break screwed up when the person in the room before allowed a party to hang out an extra 12 min. His 24 min bubble was turned into a 12 min bubble, 12 min encounter, and another 12 min bubble. Not enough time to get anywhere outside of TD. Man, he gets grumpy when he doesn't eat lunch until 3pm...

Adam Pillari wrote:
Now, since I guess their logic is that being participants of TD, we're therefor covered by the "exhibitor" title, would setting up an area specifically for trading and/or token sales make it less of a grey area? I know we used to have the tavern, and while we did have tables in the storyscape....the lighting was downright lousy.

Well - all attendees are covered by the "individuals" clause in the exhibitor rules (I agree it's a bit odd that it's not in the general attendee faq, but it still applies).

Gen Con is not going to let there be a token sales area anywhere without "wetting their beak." If you are there to sell they want their piece. There are also some things that are imposed upon them by Indiana no doubt in terms of regulating commerce in that building. So - that's not going to happen.

Broadly I think trying to make it "official" is probably not the best idea - getting Gen Con involved in making a ruling risks them ruling in a way we don't want.

That being said I have no idea what True Adventures contract with Gen Con is like - perhaps trading is explicitly allowed in the TD event space.

Lack of directional signage, something like arrows on floor up to main dealer hall of TD this way spaced out would've been handy.

Yeah, think we should have had door propped open between signin and the storyscape area would've helped. Can't begin to count the # of times i was passing through between runs/on bubble and helped people find their areas this year.

I remember when Fri night or Sat morn helping a guy on his phone through the gencon app to find an purchase tickets. A closer spot to get tickets or at least generics wouldn've been nice.

Food, to echo others, it sucked. Damned near lived off family sized box of nature valley most of con.

Location as a whole, i liked the new space, walk sucked coming from Embassy and momument circle hotels. Did like the airwall between coaching and dungeons. If we can open up the storyscape area better and have a loop for better management/flow through of dungeon exits i think we can make our new home more habitable with better marshaling points and open trade areas. Just not enough table/functional layouts to sit and trade and talk with people i only see once a year.

Why o why did we loose the photo area? Didn't realize how much i liked it till it was con. Usually the only pic of myself that gets taken during con.

Tunnel it self not as bad a walk as feared but still bad.

Overall can we live with LoS? I think so but changes need to made to adapt to community needs and desires.

I remember when Fri night or Sat morn helping a guy on his phone through the gencon app to find an purchase tickets. A closer spot to get tickets or at least generics wouldn've been nice.

Matt... pretty sure that was me that you helped Saturday. Hard to say but I am 80% sure about this one.

Thanks so much!

Hershel wrote: 8) Due to the upswing in new players, I would like to see TD sell badges to players saying TD Mentor or some such indicating that they can and are willing to answer questions about TD. I overheard several questions from new players. Things like, one player indicating that they had bought several tokens in the dealer hall $1 or $2 each. Were these good tokens? I helped as best I could and so did several other players. Raven was especially helpful to several players who were new to the whole TD experience. Go Raven!

(snip)

In closing, we did have some minor issues but all in all I think this was definitely TD's finest hour. Thanks again to MasterEd and Raven for helping so many new players. You two rock!

Thanks for the shout-out, man. I'm glad we could make your TD experience more enjoyable.

I'm not sure about 'Mentor' badges, though.
While the idea has merit, it means someone would need to be in charge of deciding who gets them, and who doesn't. Would TD sell them to whoever coughs up $5? Should they make some kind of 'Mentor' quiz, and if you don't pass it you can't get a button/give out advice? Would Mentor status only be given out to people with a certain community standing - turning it into a popularity contest? What about people who - like Master Ed - are both great at helping with advice, but also trying to run a store which could (hypothetically) make a profit.

On that example, I heard some folks dissing Master Ed's store. Apparently, some people were less than impressed that his tokens (like the Charm of Health) were being sold to new players for a substantial GP mark-up. (This is completely aside from the fact that he was *also* transmuting Charms of Health for newbies for their base ingredients, and making no profit on that. ) But it's easy to claim that he created a shortage by transmuting so many charms himself, and then profited from his monopoly.

I get that people don't want to see new players ripped off, but I don't personally have a problem with shop keepers setting their prices at what the market will bear. Just like I don't have problem with Laz' eBay auctions, or TD Tavern selling pre-made equipment packs for more GP than the individual tokens are arguably worth. Their time and energy and research is valuable. They put a lot of work into hauling their tokens around, packaging and mailing for transmutes, being there at times when Ektdar's trading post isn't even open, watching market values, researching what would make a good equipment set for a new player, etc. There's value in that.

If they're lying to players, saying, "This Charm is worth 1000gp, and the only way you can get it is through me." that's a problem. But if they say, "The transmute shop sold out of these, but you can trade for one later through the mail, or I can trade it to you now for these base ingredients, or I'll sell one for 700gp." then that's the buyer's choice, and I have no problem with it.

Problem is that if you pin a button on someone, and say, "This person provides good advice" there will be pressure on them not to sell tokens (or not for a profit). Or that they have to know the tokenDB inside and out some they don't accidentally explain the Magnificent bard Instrument wrong?.Or that they're not allowed to have a bad day while wearing their pin. It just gets complicated.

I'm happy to keep doing the best I can, and knowing that many others in the community are doing the best they can, while still being human. I really hope new players can understand that, too.

ok so here's the deal. Gencon Makes a lot of money on exhibitor booths. We pay a lot for those booths and ultimately we're paying for the privilege of transacting in cash. Ergo don't sell tokens unless you're in the dealer hall. Gencon protects this otherwise why would a dealer pay money to have a booth in the hall if I could just sell in any room I'd like.

Moral of the story, don't transact in cash outside the dealer hall.
The rest is just rules regulations and taxation.

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On to some other observations i'll echo. --- More Signs! Even simple ones that say Enter Here!
I can't tell you the number of people I watched pile up at the doors afraid to go in.
I can't tell you the number of people I ushered in past those door.
Plinko became me telling people to go through those doors to start their run.


As for the rest of it, Yes there were LOTS of people late for their runs. LOTS and LOTS.
Some were late because they went to the wrong place, some were late because they weren't sure where to go. Others were late because they stood at those doors. Many didn't realize there was a ticking clock.
There were a lot of drops and last minuet adds. Not 100% sure why but it happened.


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Starter bags can't work really. Lots of reasons why.
Coaches already have the ability to get you some "starter" gear, so its not as needed as you might think.
What would be more important is having people turn up 30mins early to their run.

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As for the "Troll" LOL I'm sorry if he bothered people.
I was never bothered by him. I held up my badge as a passed through and he never stopped me.
I walked through every time with an open Soda in my hand and he never stopped me.
I walked through about half the time with a back pack full of food and he never stopped me.

I'll say this, he could have been a lot worse. He was no Ivan the terrible.

Re: troll

The two times he was grumpiest:

On Wednesday he was turning away people who wandered up to wander down. I came up and he started to chastise me, but I held up my hand where he'd written some weird tribal tattoo in sharpie, and he just glowered at me. It was like he was thinking "damn, I can't chew this one out."

The next time I think was when the elevator was broken. I said "I don't know if you're aware..." And he snapped "we know it's broken." The second time he growled, I said "then you should put an out-of-order sign on it so people can stop asking you."

On Saturday he was paired with a cute young woman and seemed much smilier and less troll-like.