TOPIC: "Ghosting" a run for Treasure - Changed at GenCon?

Did anyone notice there was a change to the 'Ghosting' policy this past GenCon?

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NOTE: By "Ghosting" I mean the practice of using a ticket just for the treasure, without an additional player on the run. Personally, I hate the term 'ghosting' for treasure, because Ghosts are what happen when you die in the dungeon but follow your party silently to see the rest of the rooms. There are tokens which allow Ghosts to speak, or let people interact with Dead characters, so it's always been confusing.

I prefer the term, "Retainers" implying you have some NPC minions with you who carry your treasure / Treasure Generating Tokens, and occasionally Synergistic tokens. As a bonus, this is what happens when you 'Retain' the wristband for a run, without putting it on a different player.
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At one point during the Con, people who turned in a spare ticket were given both wristbands, and 8 (I think?) packs of tokens, to offset the price of the unused ticket. It was explained to me that this encourages players to turn in the extra tickets, because TD gets nothing from the ticket sale if they can't turn in the physical ticket to GenCon. But the net effect of this policy meant that player could recoup the full value of their ticket (7 packs x $7.99 = $55.93) PLUS the free pack of tokens which is given out to every player, PLUS the 3 automatic treasure for completing the dungeon, and the Completion token(s) and all the value they might get from loading that unused slot full of Treasure Generating tokens.

Obviously, this is a problem and would make it extremely tempting to Treasure Farm.

So the policy changed - You don't get to "Ghost" anymore. You just turn in the ticket for your 7 packs of tokens, and that's that.

But people wanted to be able to use those extra slots for Treasure, so then the policy changed to:

If you turn in a ticket, you may *EITHER* receive 7(?) extra bags of tokens, *OR* you get the Wristband and the right to run the extra slot for Treasure.

That's the way the policy was looking at the end of the con (I saw it written down) but the information hadn't propagated through all the check-in /registration volunteers, so it was being applied haphazardly, and may or may not have affected any number of people who were running with extra Wrist bands.

What do people think?
What were your experiences with this?

Raven wrote: Did anyone notice there was a change to the 'Ghosting' policy this past GenCon?

---
NOTE: By "Ghosting" I mean the practice of using a ticket just for the treasure, without an additional player on the run. Personally, I hate the term 'ghosting' for treasure, because Ghosts are what happen when you die in the dungeon but follow your party silently to see the rest of the rooms. There are tokens which allow Ghosts to speak, or let people interact with Dead characters, so it's always been confusing.

I prefer the term, "Retainers" implying you have some NPC minions with you who carry your treasure / Treasure Generating Tokens, and occasionally Synergistic tokens. As a bonus, this is what happens when you 'Retain' the wristband for a run, without putting it on a different player.
---

At one point during the Con, people who turned in a spare ticket were given both wristbands, and 8(I think?) packs of tokens, to offset the price of the unused ticket. It was explained to me that this encourages players to turn in the extra tickets, because TD gets nothing from the ticket sale if they can't turn in the physical ticket to GenCon. But the net effect of this policy meant that player could the full value of their ticket (7 packs x $7.99 = $55.93) PLUS the free pack of tokens which is given out to every player, PLUS all the value they get from loading that unused slot full of Treasure Generating tokens.

Obviously, this is a problem and would make it extremely tempting to Treasure Farm.

So the policy changed - You don't get to "Ghost" anymore. You just turn in the ticket for your 7 packs of tokens, and that's that.

But people wanted to be able to use those extra slots for Treasure, so then the policy changed to:

If you turn in a ticket, you may *EITHER* receive 7(?) extra bags of tokens, *OR* you get the Wristband and the right to run the extra slot for Treasure.

That's the way the policy was looking at the end of the con (I saw it written down) but the information hadn't propagated through all the check-in /registration volunteers, so it was being applied haphazardly, and may or may not have affected any number of people who were running with extra Wrist bands.

What do people think?
What were your experiences with this?

I ghosted both before and after the policy. I am fine with the change but I am guessing with the new treasure enhancers for 2017 it will be revisited.

Ed

Thanks Master Ed.

Could you confirm for me that it was 7 bags of tokens for turning in the ticket?

MasterED wrote: I ghosted both before and after the policy. I am fine with the change but I am guessing with the new treasure enhancers for 2017 it will be revisited.

Ed

Yeah, that's a good part of why I'm sharing this policy change - because I think a lot of people didn't/don't know what the policy is/was. And assuming the 2017 tokens contain those TE we're all expecting them to, the Ghosting policy will be very relevant to the discussion.

Raven wrote: Thanks Master Ed.

Could you confirm for me that it was 7 bags of tokens for turning in the ticket?

Sorry I can't confirm the number because the only time I took the tokens was once before the rule change and I was doing my solo Nightmare and wasn't paying attention. It does sound about right when I do the math.

I think the rule changed just after that (around 10 AM on Friday) - so I guess you can blame me!

Ed

Raven wrote: Did anyone notice there was a change to the 'Ghosting' policy this past GenCon?

---
NOTE: By "Ghosting" I mean the practice of using a ticket just for the treasure, without an additional player on the run. Personally, I hate the term 'ghosting' for treasure, because Ghosts are what happen when you die in the dungeon but follow your party silently to see the rest of the rooms. There are tokens which allow Ghosts to speak, or let people interact with Dead characters, so it's always been confusing.

I prefer the term, "Retainers" implying you have some NPC minions with you who carry your treasure / Treasure Generating Tokens, and occasionally Synergistic tokens. As a bonus, this is what happens when you 'Retain' the wristband for a run, without putting it on a different player.
---

At one point during the Con, people who turned in a spare ticket were given both wristbands, and 8 (I think?) packs of tokens, to offset the price of the unused ticket. It was explained to me that this encourages players to turn in the extra tickets, because TD gets nothing from the ticket sale if they can't turn in the physical ticket to GenCon. But the net effect of this policy meant that player could recoup the full value of their ticket (7 packs x $7.99 = $55.93) PLUS the free pack of tokens which is given out to every player, PLUS the 3 automatic treasure for completing the dungeon, and the Completion token(s) and all the value they might get from loading that unused slot full of Treasure Generating tokens.

Obviously, this is a problem and would make it extremely tempting to Treasure Farm.

So the policy changed - You don't get to "Ghost" anymore. You just turn in the ticket for your 7 packs of tokens, and that's that.

But people wanted to be able to use those extra slots for Treasure, so then the policy changed to:

If you turn in a ticket, you may *EITHER* receive 7(?) extra bags of tokens, *OR* you get the Wristband and the right to run the extra slot for Treasure.

That's the way the policy was looking at the end of the con (I saw it written down) but the information hadn't propagated through all the check-in /registration volunteers, so it was being applied haphazardly, and may or may not have affected any number of people who were running with extra Wrist bands.

What do people think?
What were your experiences with this?

I got a ruling straight from Lori on Friday I think that you got both 10 packs and Treasure pulls.

I was trying to return the 10 packs because I thought it was either/or and there was an error in my favor.

FYI - I was ghosting 4 slots due to no shows in a run I had bought out, it was not strategic in any way.

I'm fine with almost any policy for this, from both, to either, to TD picks one for all, to NO SOUP FOR YOU.

Just as long as it's clear up front. NO SOUP FOR YOU seems bad for new players.

I think either/or may be best - new players would probably rather have 8 token 10-packs than 3 treasure pulls. Vets would probably rather have 15 treasure pulls. Getting both seemed exceedingly generous to me (but then again - my pulls stunk this year ).

Raven wrote: Thanks Master Ed.

Could you confirm for me that it was 7 bags of tokens for turning in the ticket?

I was given 8.

Putting the new 2017 tokens (and possible TE aside) I will say for GHC there may be unsold tickets on runs. It would make difference to me what the policy was. Given either/or (which I believe is fair) would not induce me to buy those extra tickets - primarily because I have already bought 53 tickets (and that is plenty). Now if someone tells me well you get extra packs to make up for the added ticket (5 at GHC I guess) then it would probably make me pull out my wallet.

Again I am fine with either just sharing my consumer opinion.

Ed

out of the 40 tickets I bought I think 2 or 3 ended up being ghosts/retainers do to no shows. Nothing was said to me on Sunday or any other day I might have had a ghost, so it was NOT passed along to everyone.

MasterED wrote: Putting the new 2017 tokens (and possible TE aside) I will say for GHC there may be unsold tickets on runs. It would make difference to me what the policy was. Given either/or (which I believe is fair) would not induce me to buy those extra tickets - primarily because I have already bought 53 tickets (and that is plenty). Now if someone tells me well you get extra packs to make up for the added ticket (5 at GHC I guess) then it would probably make me pull out my wallet.

Again I am fine with either just sharing my consumer opinion.

Ed

I am curious as well. I bought out a run that has at least one unfilled slot currently.

Let's be clear; with the new treasure mix (if it stays that way), and 17 guaranteed pulls per ticket, we certainly don't need any extra incentive for people to ghost runs. If you consider that treasure draws were selling for over $5/ea, and that's before people knew how good the mix was, that would be $85 of treasure for a $56 ticket. That's a real problem for farming IMO. And assuming the new treasure enhancer stacks, now max treasure is 19 pulls (excluding artifacts).

I think the policy should be how it ended up; you receive one 10-pack and a wristband and associated treasure once you finish the run OR you get eight 10-packs for just turning in the ticket (no need to go on the run).

Additionally, to curb "farming" the runs, I suggest that ghost players should NOT receive the 3 free treasure draws, should NOT receive the 6th level player bonus, and additionally can only "equip" one treasure enhancer. Currently this would most likely be the Charm of Avarice, so the max treasure draws would be 13 draws. I'd also argue no completion tokens. I say this as somebody who is thinking about doing my first solo run at GenCon 2017.

Finally, I think True Dungeon should sell "treasure runs" at the same place they sell tokens. You pay the current ticket price (e.g. $56) and you receive a 10-pack and whatever treasure draws you have tokens for, but no completion tokens.

Kirk Bauer wrote: Finally, I think True Dungeon should sell "treasure runs" at the same place they sell tokens. You pay the current ticket price (e.g. $56) and you receive a 10-pack and whatever treasure draws you have tokens for, but no completion tokens.

I agree with this because it basically resolves the farming question.

Ed