TOPIC: "Ghosting" a run for Treasure - Changed at GenCon?

Kirk Bauer wrote: Let's be clear; with the new treasure mix (if it stays that way), and 17 guaranteed pulls per ticket, we certainly don't need any extra incentive for people to ghost runs. If you consider that treasure draws were selling for over $5/ea, and that's before people knew how good the mix was, that would be $85 of treasure for a $56 ticket. That's a real problem for farming IMO. And assuming the new treasure enhancer stacks, now max treasure is 19 pulls (excluding artifacts).

I think the policy should be how it ended up; you receive one 10-pack and a wristband and associated treasure once you finish the run OR you get eight 10-packs for just turning in the ticket (no need to go on the run).

Additionally, to curb "farming" the runs, I suggest that ghost players should NOT receive the 3 free treasure draws, should NOT receive the 6th level player bonus, and additionally can only "equip" one treasure enhancer. Currently this would most likely be the Charm of Avarice, so the max treasure draws would be 13 draws. I'd also argue no completion tokens. I say this as somebody who is thinking about doing my first solo run at GenCon 2017.

Finally, I think True Dungeon should sell "treasure runs" at the same place they sell tokens. You pay the current ticket price (e.g. $56) and you receive a 10-pack and whatever treasure draws you have tokens for, but no completion tokens.

I'm not in favor of selling equivalent of Treasure runs due to the number of pulls and the value of tokens in the treasure boxes. I could see people spending thousands of dollars on them.

I think there needs to be strict restrictions on the amount of Treasure for ghost players. 8 token packs is a good solution, with no completion tokens.

The idea of selling "treasure runs" is interesting - thanks Kirk. It could curtail a lot of the treasure farming before it gets out of hand.

To play devil's advocate, though, you're getting awfully close to a game of chance, I.e. Gambling. It's close to buying a dozen raffle tickets, with prizes ranging from 50 cent uncommons to $400 relics. Someone would need to research the legal definition of gambling in Indiana before moving forward with this idea.

Tom has suggested selling a 160 pack at GenCon with the same mix as treasure, and the price would be $560 or so. No completion tokens and no starter packs.

Hmmmm... sorry in advance for the half baked ideas.

binia wrote: The idea of selling "treasure runs" is interesting - thanks Kirk. It could curtail a lot of the treasure farming before it gets out of hand.

To play devil's advocate, though, you're getting awfully close to a game of chance, I.e. Gambling. It's close to buying a dozen raffle tickets, with prizes ranging from 50 cent uncommons to $400 relics. Someone would need to research the legal definition of gambling in Indiana before moving forward with this idea.

Tom has suggested selling a 160 pack at GenCon with the same mix as treasure, and the price would be $560 or so. No completion tokens and no starter packs.

Hmmmm... sorry in advance for the half baked ideas.

How is this different from selling older, high value packs of Magic: The Gathering? I can't see any relevant way.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

binia wrote: The idea of selling "treasure runs" is interesting - thanks Kirk. It could curtail a lot of the treasure farming before it gets out of hand.

To play devil's advocate, though, you're getting awfully close to a game of chance, I.e. Gambling. It's close to buying a dozen raffle tickets, with prizes ranging from 50 cent uncommons to $400 relics. Someone would need to research the legal definition of gambling in Indiana before moving forward with this idea.

Tom has suggested selling a 160 pack at GenCon with the same mix as treasure, and the price would be $560 or so. No completion tokens and no starter packs.

Hmmmm... sorry in advance for the half baked ideas.

How is this different from selling older, high value packs of Magic: The Gathering? I can't see any relevant way.

It is probably a LOT better actually, as unscrupulous people can actually move each Magic card up to where it can be seen though the wrapper, then determine if they want to open it or sell it in its original sealed state.

I don't really see how buying this is much different from buying the different treasure token packs in the first place. You may or may not get additional UR level items.

It is a bigger variance with treasure, but that is just range.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Raven wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Raven wrote: Thanks Master Ed.

Could you confirm for me that it was 7 bags of tokens for turning in the ticket?

I was given 8.

Was that 8 total (7, plus the 1 free one that everyone gets) or 9 total (8 plus the 1 free) ?

And thank you for the data point.

8 total.

I ghosted one player slot twice for two different runs. Both on Saturday. The first time I was told that i could either keep the treasure pulls at the end, or receive 8 ten packs. I chose the 8 ten packs and was given 8 packs that came from what looked like a partially opened shrink wrapped master pack case of 10 ten packs. I was also given another pack that was housed in the common little dice bags. So 9 total ten packs. The second time I received a total of 8 ten packs. All of these were in individual little dice bags and the person pulled them from a large tub. So one time I got 9, the other time I received 8.

I understand everyone's concern about completion/participation tokens but please allow me another point. I buy all 10 tickets for my group. I usually have 10 bodies but occassionally stuff happens and we have to run with less than 10 at Gen Con. This is after I have looked for new people to join along. I buy all 10 to both have control of the group but also to get 10 completion tokens. So when they are things like the lamp I eill have 1 for each of us. How does it hurt anyone else if we pay for 10 tickets plan to run with 10 but only run with 8 or 9 and get 10 tokens?

jedibcg wrote: I understand everyone's concern about completion/participation tokens but please allow me another point. I buy all 10 tickets for my group. I usually have 10 bodies but occassionally stuff happens and we have to run with less than 10 at Gen Con. This is after I have looked for new people to join along. I buy all 10 to both have control of the group but also to get 10 completion tokens. So when they are things like the lamp I eill have 1 for each of us. How does it hurt anyone else if we pay for 10 tickets plan to run with 10 but only run with 8 or 9 and get 10 tokens?

I don't think it does - maybe Ghosting rules would only come into play if there were more than 5 ghost slots?

Anyway - all this strikes me as much ado about nothing.

I don't think there is any evidence that people are buying out runs to ghost, and I think the main objection to ghosting comes from the fear of denying other players limited slots.

I would advocate not solving the problem until it occurs.

I also think GHC and WYC are different than GC. I bought out a run of each at GHC. I admit I don't have a group yet for them, but I will attempt to get 10 of each. That is more about controlling the group, and there are still lots of tickets left. I will be doing my usual offer for free tickets to new players starting later this month but think I may only have a handful of players at GHC.

Matthew Hayward wrote:
I don't think there is any evidence that people are buying out runs to ghost, and I think the main objection to ghosting comes from the fear of denying other players limited slots.

And I'll tell you, you're wrong. I know there are people who are planning on buying out runs with the intent of ghosting for the loot, not playing. I don't get around much, and I know of at least three. And every new TE only makes it more attractive.

And I'll confess, I've decided to do it, too. I've given up fighting this battle. Everyone has told me for years I was being paranoid, so I can't help chuckling a little as I read this thread.

But whatever the rules are for ghosts, they should be the same as for minions. If you buy someone's ticket and they give you all their loot, then they are just a ghost with a body and should be treated the same way as a ghost without one.

But how do you tell a mercenaries from folks like Harlax's son and friends? Well, that's the tricky part, isn't it?

I don't really have an opinion on this, other than I really like the double-down runs I have done. Never going to do a solo run.

bpsymington wrote: I don't really have an opinion on this, other than I really like the double-down runs I have done. Never going to dio a solo run.

Sorry, bur what is a double down run?

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

bpsymington wrote: I don't really have an opinion on this, other than I really like the double-down runs I have done. Never going to dio a solo run.

Sorry, bur what is a double down run?

Five person run, each person with one ghost/retainer (I like that term, Raven!).