TOPIC: Proposed GT Class Lottery Approach

Wade Schwendemann wrote: I agree with Mike. It wouldn't be easy to ask someone to give up a class you know you want to play, particularly given that you will have to play with that person later.

The rules in the dungeon are pretty clear about it not being first come, first served, but people still get there quite a bit early to try to grab what they want.

I think it's just human nature. I'd bet, virtually every time, if someone logs onto the Gold Ticket thread after just having gotten their Golden Ticket, and they see 8 names with 8 classes identified with them, they will sign up for one of the remaining 4 classes, even if the class they really want is one of the ones already taken.

Raven wrote:

FirstGladiator wrote: Couldn't it just be settled by a persons XP levels on this site?

S'pose it could... but then I'd get my top choice *ever* *single* *time*.
And that's not really fair.

Better yet why can't it be just by compromises being made and doing our absolute best to make everyone happy.

Agreed. That is a better way.


I think the GT lists are misleading... it looks as if people are signing up for a class. But really, it's just people signing up for a run, and stating which class they are most equipped for. Generally, we want to have the best equipped people in each slot... but I have seen *so* many times when it went like this:

Newer player signs up, and says "I'm best equipped for Ranger, but since you've already got one, I guess I'll take the left-over Wizard class."

And the Ranger says, "Hey new guy! I'd be happy to let you play Ranger. Can I help equip you, so you'll be a great DPS machine for our party? ... I guess I can play Wizard, if needed. Or maybe $Name can play Wizard, and I can take over as Cleric, since he only took that class so we'd have a good healer."

I know I've signed up at the bottom of the list before, and taken the Fighter or Ranger class, and then someone else say, "Raven, I'll let you have Rogue!" (... tho since I'm a little better known, I can't claim that they weren't just intimidated, and frightened I was gonna backstab 'em. You never know.)

Raven, when I read that, an image popped into my head of Mark Hammill logging onto the True Star Wars Golden Ticket thread late, and someone saying "Hey Mark, I'll switch classes with you, you can play the Jedi".

Matt, really like your idea. I'm sure that most GT runners are very accommodating but the current way isn't truly fair. The only fair way to do it is to randomize it.

Rob F wrote: Matt, really like your idea. I'm sure that most GT runners are very accommodating but the current way isn't truly fair. The only fair way to do it is to randomize it.

Even if you stayed with the current method of everyone just kind of working together to decide classes, it would be more fair if you waited to start listing classes for people until something like either the list of 10 was finished or you got to a certain drop-dead date (maybe a month before GENCON?).

We're talking about forty experienced people. If we can't work it out like grownups without layers of rules, how can we expect the people holding the thousands of non-GTs to do so?

And I hate the word "fair." Its 100% subjective.

For example, I think the current system is totally fair. It rewards the big buyers who place large preorders. Everyone knows they subsidize the game for everyone else and let Jeff make better plans.

You may not agree, but you're not allowed to argue against it because I used the word "fair," so if you do you have no sense of justice.

Sarcasm flag off

I didn't know that the GT's were only given to 40 experienced people??? I thought that everyone had a shot (a better shot the more you bought). I also didn't know that the GT's were designed to reward the big Token buyers??? Even if that were the case, which it's not, the only "fair" way is still to randomize class selection. And I don't see how randomizing a selection order is layering on rules.

If someone can point out a drawback for randomizing class selection order I'd be happy to listen. So far no one has.

Of course GTs aren't restricted to experienced players. But, that's who finds the vast majority of them.

You missed my sarcasm flag. That said, I reject the premise that Random = Fair

Random does = Fair. With the exception of the Gen Con housing lottery. ☺

I really miss the days when it was first come first serve to get those downtown rooms!!

Signed,

Hypocrite Rob

Rob F wrote: I didn't know that the GT's were only given to 40 experienced people??? I thought that everyone had a shot (a better shot the more you bought). I also didn't know that the GT's were designed to reward the big Token buyers??? Even if that were the case, which it's not, the only "fair" way is still to randomize class selection. And I don't see how randomizing a selection order is layering on rules.

If someone can point out a drawback for randomizing class selection order I'd be happy to listen. So far no one has.

Hypotheticaly randomizing after a certian date might cause people to place their order later/change their minds about the order/decide to do it next year if they miss the date/ leave Jeff with less advanced knowledge of his budgets for the year.

Personally I think its fine as is since it is usually mainly super accommodating vets who end up buying/finding the tickets but I buy my pyps from player venders so Ive got no skin in the game so to speak.

Rob F wrote: Random does = Fair. With the exception of the Gen Con housing lottery. ☺

I really miss the days when it was first come first serve to get those downtown rooms!!

Signed,

Hypocrite Rob

Fair is often a matter of perspective. Lets say I make a pie, should I share since its fair everyone gets a slice or is it fair to keep it to myself since I put in the work to make it.

Even if we switch to a class lotto is it fair that whoever anounces first has preference on run selection (combat generally fills up first). Is it fair if I preorder before Christmas someone who orders after the tokens go into print should have the same chance at classes ( if so why does getting the class card first matter on all other runs). Is it fair that someone who says they are third level gets to take that card from me, Is it fair that token power scales with rarity or that some players have 40 token builds while others have 4. IMO its all perspective.

I get a kick out of people complaining about he word "fair"...

One of the few things I have learned in my life is:
"Life is not fair. It doesn't owe you anything"

GT runs are going to go most likely to experienced players and those with great tokens because those are the ones who buy the most... or those with lots of money who can buy one for that outrageous price I saw them selling for last year... one I saw went for over $1200... way above my max bid.

I could rant and rave all night on this one silly topic, and probably take both sides, and really offend everyone... but I play True Dungeon because it is fun... and when something stops being fun, well, why continue to play?

Like I learned in kindergarten, life isn't fair, milk and cookies makes all the bad go away (thanks Druegar!), play nice with others, et. al.

Maybe I have had too much to drink tonight and should just sign off...

Sorry to anyone who I may have offended, but remember, he/she who takes offense when offense is not intended is a fool, and he/she who takes offense when it is intended is an idiot... another thing I learned in kindergarten (as well as that political correctness is for pansies)...

FirstGladiator wrote: Couldn't it just be settled by a persons XP levels on this site? Better yet why can't it be just by compromises being made and doing our absolute best to make everyone happy.

It certainly could!

But I think if that is what we're going for, the current signup behavior should be modified - as it certainly looks like first come, first served is the rule.

If that's not the rule, it should be stated that class proposals are provisional, and have no effect other than to bootstrap the conversation.