TOPIC: Anyone playing VTD please read

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: Not that I think it would work 100%, but could 1 run every 4 hours be designated "1st runners only" or something similar?

Sure, we could designate it, but...

This has been an issue for as long as I've been part of TD. The only thing that's changed here is the DM's now have something they can do about it (other than radio for an AC)

The DM's job is to make the room as fun as they can for as many as they can. So If you're spoiling the puzzle it's now 1v9 to the DM's point of view.

You can and should communicate to the rest of the players if you've been through before, so they can make a choice on whether or not to call on your aide for a puzzle solution.

Phillip Evans wrote: Here’s the thing obviously it’s happening or it would t have needed to be said. Also look at the source of who is saying it Laz is pretty respected around TD he is bringing it up because the people who have said something don’t feel comfortable confronting the players directly. Now let me address a few topics.

If you want to give a hint message the dm see if they agree. Or just leave it to the DM to run the room. Where much of the problem arises is people who think they are being helpful but really aren’t.

Loaning people tokens and building new players up if fun. However if they don’t know what the tokens do or how to use them properly you do more harm than good.

For the love of god!!!! If you get into a party that selects a lower difficulty do not…. I repeat do not come in with a build that does 7million damage per round, and can’t be hit, and has a token for every thing you will encounter. When they do 10 damage and the next person does 7million they are not having fun. Bard and healers you fall into a weird spot and I’m not completely sure how I feel.

If you are playing the dungeon and know the answers. Just message the dm tell them you have played and know the answers and I bet they won’t give you push damage if it comes down to time.

Lastly if we cannot police ourselves the dms will have to start stepping in, and I don’t think anyone wants to be muted. I’m sure if it comes to it and people start getting muted there will be complaints about dm’s. So police yourselves and don’t let it come to that.

It’s not everyone. It’s not most but it happens enough that it needed to be said. Keep that in mind. I assure you every DM
has at least one of these stories every weekend.

I would be incredibly surprised if the DMs are ALLOWED to ever mute a player.

I know as a player who paid money to join a run I would be furious if the DM chose to lock me out of interacting in the event for any reason. That would be a massive, massive issue.

Not that I think there's any reason that I would ever trigger that response. Just saying that would be a SEVERE SEVERE offense. That'd be equivalent to throwing a player out of the dungeon run. It'd have to be an EXTREME offense to make it allowable.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Phillip Evans wrote: Here’s the thing obviously it’s happening or it would t have needed to be said. Also look at the source of who is saying it Laz is pretty respected around TD he is bringing it up because the people who have said something don’t feel comfortable confronting the players directly. Now let me address a few topics.

If you want to give a hint message the dm see if they agree. Or just leave it to the DM to run the room. Where much of the problem arises is people who think they are being helpful but really aren’t.

Loaning people tokens and building new players up if fun. However if they don’t know what the tokens do or how to use them properly you do more harm than good.

For the love of god!!!! If you get into a party that selects a lower difficulty do not…. I repeat do not come in with a build that does 7million damage per round, and can’t be hit, and has a token for every thing you will encounter. When they do 10 damage and the next person does 7million they are not having fun. Bard and healers you fall into a weird spot and I’m not completely sure how I feel.

If you are playing the dungeon and know the answers. Just message the dm tell them you have played and know the answers and I bet they won’t give you push damage if it comes down to time.

Lastly if we cannot police ourselves the dms will have to start stepping in, and I don’t think anyone wants to be muted. I’m sure if it comes to it and people start getting muted there will be complaints about dm’s. So police yourselves and don’t let it come to that.

It’s not everyone. It’s not most but it happens enough that it needed to be said. Keep that in mind. I assure you every DM
has at least one of these stories every weekend.

I would be incredibly surprised if the DMs are ALLOWED to ever mute a player.

I know as a player who paid money to join a run I would be furious if the DM chose to lock me out of interacting in the event for any reason. That would be a massive, massive issue.

Not that I think there's any reason that I would ever trigger that response. Just saying that would be a SEVERE SEVERE offense. That'd be equivalent to throwing a player out of the dungeon run. It'd have to be an EXTREME offense to make it allowable.

If there is no reason you would do it, then why even post this. Dont be a dick. Plain and simple. There are too many people ruining this game because they think they are so valuable and above everyone. Guess what nobody is. If you think they are NOT ALLOWED, then try it.....because the DMs are allowed. No one should be able to ruin the game for others. If you buy out the whole run and want to spoil it for your party. By all means do that. If you pay for one ticket, and want to spoil it for 9 other people. Not going to happen. The coaches will tell the DMs if the run if purchased by one person.

You try to spoil it, you will be muted ( i would rather have you pissed off than 9 new players). If you have a problem with it, email Lori and ask. I am sure she will say the same thing but probably a lot nicer way.

This thread should have been a way to get people to look at them selves and say How can I do better..
instead it is Why me, this is not fair, you cant do that..why because everything is an argument on here anymore (why I dont get on here and read anything, because it gets turned into social media)

The DM would not mute you for the whole run(unless you are being an ass, at that point a director would be in the meeting) Just like in person. Except in person it would probably be an AC.

So to sum up my points for this thread. If you can't control yourself (ie if you have to be a dick) then don't do PUGs. There are plenty of forum members looking for people.
If you are not sure on Hints (pm the DM, tell them you PM'd them) they will tell you if the hint is too far.
make up 3 different versions of your character (if you are doing PUGs)
if you are not sure if you should do, say something ..then don't. DON'T BE A DICK

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: This thread should have been a way to get people to look at them selves and say How can I do better..

If it helps, that's how I'm taking this thread. I am reading the comments and there is so much more I could comment on, but that's kind of where I end up. I'll leave it there.

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: If there is no reason you would do it, then why even post this.

I posted because the suggestion that the DMs will start using global mute powers to police runs is a big thing that could cause extremely negative responses from players.

Yes, I agree that no one should ruin the fun of the game for other players, and I agree that a player who knows the solution to a puzzle should be willing to fail the puzzle and take the damage if players on the run do not know the solution and wish to solve it; it's my standard rule for any run I host that we take the push damage instead of ruining the puzzle for other players.

But there's also a moderately large number of players who either actively do not care about the puzzle solutions or actively want to learn how the puzzles are solved on runs. And it would be bad if VTD changed to the point where players are actively muted in puzzle rooms to 'protect' players who are actively requesting the puzzle solution from the party. Something that could happen if the DMs are directed to mute players who are giving solutions without proper caveats.

I'm not saying I feel things are unfair. I am not trying to start an argument.

But I feel I should be able to state my feelings on things being said on the forums. So I did.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: If there is no reason you would do it, then why even post this.

I posted because the suggestion that the DMs will start using global mute powers to police runs is a big thing that could cause extremely negative responses from players.

Yes, I agree that no one should ruin the fun of the game for other players, and I agree that a player who knows the solution to a puzzle should be willing to fail the puzzle and take the damage if players on the run do not know the solution and wish to solve it; it's my standard rule for any run I host that we take the push damage instead of ruining the puzzle for other players.

But there's also a moderately large number of players who either actively do not care about the puzzle solutions or actively want to learn how the puzzles are solved on runs. And it would be bad if VTD changed to the point where players are actively muted in puzzle rooms to 'protect' players who are actively requesting the puzzle solution from the party. Something that could happen if the DMs are directed to mute players who are giving solutions without proper caveats.

I'm not saying I feel things are unfair. I am not trying to start an argument.

But I feel I should be able to state my feelings on things being said on the forums. So I did.

Again you missed the point. Muting will be for people trying to spoil the puzzle. If they don’t know the answer then helping is fine. But if they know the answer and 3 minutes in start to spoil it with out being asked for help etc…just to avoid push damage. Then yes mute them. Because again ruining the game is being a dick.

As wade said. If you think this post is about you, then it probably is. If you don’t do anything like that. Then no need to comment.

Dave wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: This thread should have been a way to get people to look at them selves and say How can I do better..

If it helps, that's how I'm taking this thread. I am reading the comments and there is so much more I could comment on, but that's kind of where I end up. I'll leave it there.

Thanks Dave.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: If there is no reason you would do it, then why even post this.

I posted because the suggestion that the DMs will start using global mute powers to police runs is a big thing that could cause extremely negative responses from players.

Yes, I agree that no one should ruin the fun of the game for other players, and I agree that a player who knows the solution to a puzzle should be willing to fail the puzzle and take the damage if players on the run do not know the solution and wish to solve it; it's my standard rule for any run I host that we take the push damage instead of ruining the puzzle for other players.

But there's also a moderately large number of players who either actively do not care about the puzzle solutions or actively want to learn how the puzzles are solved on runs. And it would be bad if VTD changed to the point where players are actively muted in puzzle rooms to 'protect' players who are actively requesting the puzzle solution from the party. Something that could happen if the DMs are directed to mute players who are giving solutions without proper caveats.

I'm not saying I feel things are unfair. I am not trying to start an argument.

But I feel I should be able to state my feelings on things being said on the forums. So I did.

I guarantee that there its not a DM running the game that wants too have to mute players, and that is way it hasn't happened yet. but as upset as you are for the idea of being muted. there are people who have never played this game, (and probably never will again). leaving runs just as upset about their experience.
again isn't not everyone, it's not most, but the fact that this had to be said shows that it happens too much. if you are so upset about the idea of being muted imagine how someone trying this game out for the first time feels being the only one that is able to be hit in every room, having no idea what your equipment does, not being able to hit anything or if you do doing minimal damage, and when you get to a room that you can actually try to do something, someone thinks you aren't doing well, and starts telling you what to do step, by step. this happens at every convention in person, and virtual.

I love all the players, but new players are the life blood of this company, and if we burn them virtually they will never show up in person. without new blood in this game there is not growth, there is not expansion.

if we can police ourselves, and each other then there is no need for a DM to use the powers they have or call an AC/Director. this thread was supposed to be to try top get people to realize this happens a lot, and keep an eye out, but unfortunately it has turned into chaos, and bickering. it saddens me, and only reinforces why this post was needed in the first place.

we are passionate about things because we love them, that is good, but somethings we miss the forest for the trees.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I would be incredibly surprised if the DMs are ALLOWED to ever mute a player.

DMs are allowed to mute obstreperous players.

It's really sad that this had to be said, and that it's such a widespread problem. Playing with new players is awesome, it lets you see the game again with new eyes. It can be easy to get overexcited sharing tokens that do cool things, but I really don't understand steamrolling enemies or refusing to play with them. And the first question that should be asked in the tavern once every adventurer has gathered is "Who hasn't done this run yet? Has anyone not solved the puzzles?"

And who cares if you take push damage? It's not like you're gonna die in real life if it kills you, and if it's that big a deal just ignore it.

Josh M. wrote: It's really sad that this had to be said, and that it's such a widespread problem. Playing with new players is awesome, it lets you see the game again with new eyes. It can be easy to get overexcited sharing tokens that do cool things, but I really don't understand steamrolling enemies or refusing to play with them. And the first question that should be asked in the tavern once every adventurer has gathered is "Who hasn't done this run yet? Has anyone not solved the puzzles?"

And who cares if you take push damage? It's not like you're gonna die in real life if it kills you, and if it's that big a deal just ignore it.

Exactly. The puzzle solve status is easiest handled up front. One frustrating thing for me is people who are just super BAD at giving hints when they're requested or pushy about it. Slowly telling someone the puzzle answer is NOT a hint. Giving them info that turns the light bulb back on and keeps the thought train going is a hint. I have been on some runs with folks that flat out just explained or answered the puzzle at a very early impasse and it's exhausting. I will take push damage all day long over ruining a puzzle.