TOPIC: Suggestion for 2021 rare token 3 piece set

Anthony Barnstable wrote: leading me to suspect the combined cost of the 5 tokens would probably hit about 50-60 once it is out of print

This. If it ends up being nearly in the same cost neighborhood as eg Fateful Heroism for a newer player to acquire, but way more complicated to actually equip, then I'm not sure it helps the game.

What about a consumable Potion of Heroism?

This. If it ends up being nearly in the same cost neighborhood as eg Fateful Heroism for a newer player to acquire, but way more complicated to actually equip, then I'm not sure it helps the game.

What about a consumable Potion of Heroism?

I like the idea of a Enhanced Potion that will grant +1 level for 1 run

Daniel Walter wrote:

This. If it ends up being nearly in the same cost neighborhood as eg Fateful Heroism for a newer player to acquire, but way more complicated to actually equip, then I'm not sure it helps the game.

What about a consumable Potion of Heroism?

I like the idea of a Enhanced Potion that will grant +1 level for 1 run

In my mind it would be a totem paint to hold with the current theme of pre-run consumables. I guess either that or a runestone? Either way, that's minor quibbling. I like the general idea.

Daniel Walter wrote:

This. If it ends up being nearly in the same cost neighborhood as eg Fateful Heroism for a newer player to acquire, but way more complicated to actually equip, then I'm not sure it helps the game.

What about a consumable Potion of Heroism?

I like the idea of a Enhanced Potion that will grant +1 level for 1 run

Slotless +1 level at Enhanced strikes me as too good. Compare with Elixir of Vitality, a transmuted consumable which grants +1 HP.

Also, for consistency it should be an Elixir, Totem Paint, or what not - Potions lose their effect at the end of the room.

If it also consumed a ring, neck, waist, or hands slot I think it would be fine.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Daniel Walter wrote:

This. If it ends up being nearly in the same cost neighborhood as eg Fateful Heroism for a newer player to acquire, but way more complicated to actually equip, then I'm not sure it helps the game.

What about a consumable Potion of Heroism?

I like the idea of a Enhanced Potion that will grant +1 level for 1 run

Slotless +1 level at Enhanced strikes me as too good. Compare with Elixir of Vitality, a transmuted consumable which grants +1 HP.

Also, for consistency it should be an Elixir, Totem Paint, or what not - Potions lose their effect at the end of the room.

If it also consumed a ring, neck, waist, or hands slot I think it would be fine.

It would need to be a consumable that could be activated in the Coaching Room, so that you'd start with the right data on the Party card. I like the idea, I think it would have to be a fairly pricey transmute, if it's too cheap it undercuts the other ways to go to 5th level.

Mike Steele wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Daniel Walter wrote:

This. If it ends up being nearly in the same cost neighborhood as eg Fateful Heroism for a newer player to acquire, but way more complicated to actually equip, then I'm not sure it helps the game.

What about a consumable Potion of Heroism?

I like the idea of a Enhanced Potion that will grant +1 level for 1 run

Slotless +1 level at Enhanced strikes me as too good. Compare with Elixir of Vitality, a transmuted consumable which grants +1 HP.

Also, for consistency it should be an Elixir, Totem Paint, or what not - Potions lose their effect at the end of the room.

If it also consumed a ring, neck, waist, or hands slot I think it would be fine.

It would need to be a consumable that could be activated in the Coaching Room, so that you'd start with the right data on the Party card. I like the idea, I think it would have to be a fairly pricey transmute, if it's too cheap it undercuts the other ways to go to 5th level.

I love the idea of a potion of heroism, it's old school, will go away after a while if it becomes a problem, and would be a cool way to get people to try out higher levels.

Mike Steele wrote: I like the idea, I think it would have to be a fairly pricey transmute, if it's too cheap it undercuts the other ways to go to 5th level.

Why? If it costs even $20, after 5 runs the player has spent the same amount as one of the cheap URs of Heroism (when it is in print as a PYP). And if there are 3 runs and a Grind each year, that’s just barely more than one year.

Anthony Barnstable wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I like the idea, I think it would have to be a fairly pricey transmute, if it's too cheap it undercuts the other ways to go to 5th level.

Why? If it costs even $20, after 5 runs the player has spent the same amount as one of the cheap URs of Heroism (when it is in print as a PYP). And if there are 3 runs and a Grind each year, that’s just barely more than one year.

Agreed - this is one that could be a cheap transmute to be the trade good sink everyone is looking for. Who cares if it’s just 3 silk, 3 plank, 3 stone, and 1 ink? If it ends up at $10 on the secondary market, some people will try it and upgrade to a ur level booster. If they don’t upgrade, they eventually run out and / or spend more than the level booster token would have cost.

Anthony Barnstable wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I like the idea, I think it would have to be a fairly pricey transmute, if it's too cheap it undercuts the other ways to go to 5th level.

Why? If it costs even $20, after 5 runs the player has spent the same amount as one of the cheap URs of Heroism (when it is in print as a PYP). And if there are 3 runs and a Grind each year, that’s just barely more than one year.

To me, the idea is to give someone the ability to get consumable(s) to give one or a few tries at higher level to see if they like it enough to get a permanent way to get there. Maybe a fair number of them would be available via the treasure boxes (or maybe even a treasure box exclusive token). I think making it cheap enough that someone can stock up on enough of them to last them years undercuts the UR and above tokens that grant the ability.

Mike Steele wrote:

Anthony Barnstable wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I like the idea, I think it would have to be a fairly pricey transmute, if it's too cheap it undercuts the other ways to go to 5th level.

Why? If it costs even $20, after 5 runs the player has spent the same amount as one of the cheap URs of Heroism (when it is in print as a PYP). And if there are 3 runs and a Grind each year, that’s just barely more than one year.

To me, the idea is to give someone the ability to get consumable(s) to give one or a few tries at higher level to see if they like it enough to get a permanent way to get there. Maybe a fair number of them would be available via the treasure boxes (or maybe even a treasure box exclusive token). I think making it cheap enough that someone can stock up on enough of them to last them years undercuts the UR and above tokens that grant the ability.

Why would you stock up for years when you could just buy the +1 level item that lasts forever?

Mike Steele wrote:

Anthony Barnstable wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I like the idea, I think it would have to be a fairly pricey transmute, if it's too cheap it undercuts the other ways to go to 5th level.

Why? If it costs even $20, after 5 runs the player has spent the same amount as one of the cheap URs of Heroism (when it is in print as a PYP). And if there are 3 runs and a Grind each year, that’s just barely more than one year.

To me, the idea is to give someone the ability to get consumable(s) to give one or a few tries at higher level to see if they like it enough to get a permanent way to get there. Maybe a fair number of them would be available via the treasure boxes (or maybe even a treasure box exclusive token). I think making it cheap enough that someone can stock up on enough of them to last them years undercuts the UR and above tokens that grant the ability.

Lasting years is relative: it depends on how many runs you do. If a player who is less likely to already have a level up token is playing, they are probably only going to do each unique run once, or maybe fewer total runs than that. That’s about 4 a year for the new runs, and maybe add in the Reduxes if they missed an older run. If it’s a veteran we are talking about, they might crank out 10 runs in a single convention and do multiple conventions in a year, playing upwards of 30 runs per year.

I think saying the comparison price should be against $100 (the rough cost of a Cook’s Hat, Medallion of Heroism, or Ring of Fateful Heroism when it is a PYP). If the Consumable of Heroism costs $20, so 5 runs before it starts being more expensive to save the slots, I think that’s reasonable. Heck, if it is even only $10, at 10 runs before it starts costing more, I’m still okay with that. I agree, it definitely shouldn’t be a $1 token. It probably shouldn’t even be a $5 token.

I think putting in the treasure box or as a treasure box exclusive defeats the purpose of the token. It would be better as a trade token sink and it doesn’t do that in the treasure box. The people most interested in an affordable way to try the higher level are the ones with the fewest treasure draws, so the ones least likely to see a token exclusive to the treasure box, especially one they might want multiples of. It needs to be either in packs (which seems unreasonable) or as a transmute (very reasonable). If the goal is just to create a slotless level up for BiS players, then sure, toss it in the treasure box and the players with all of the TEs will get a hoard of them and set the price, maybe low enough that BiS players justify owning a stack of 300 to last them a long while.

Anthony Barnstable wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Anthony Barnstable wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I like the idea, I think it would have to be a fairly pricey transmute, if it's too cheap it undercuts the other ways to go to 5th level.

Why? If it costs even $20, after 5 runs the player has spent the same amount as one of the cheap URs of Heroism (when it is in print as a PYP). And if there are 3 runs and a Grind each year, that’s just barely more than one year.

To me, the idea is to give someone the ability to get consumable(s) to give one or a few tries at higher level to see if they like it enough to get a permanent way to get there. Maybe a fair number of them would be available via the treasure boxes (or maybe even a treasure box exclusive token). I think making it cheap enough that someone can stock up on enough of them to last them years undercuts the UR and above tokens that grant the ability.

Lasting years is relative: it depends on how many runs you do. If a player who is less likely to already have a level up token is playing, they are probably only going to do each unique run once, or maybe fewer total runs than that. That’s about 4 a year for the new runs, and maybe add in the Reduxes if they missed an older run. If it’s a veteran we are talking about, they might crank out 10 runs in a single convention and do multiple conventions in a year, playing upwards of 30 runs per year.

I think saying the comparison price should be against $100 (the rough cost of a Cook’s Hat, Medallion of Heroism, or Ring of Fateful Heroism when it is a PYP). If the Consumable of Heroism costs $20, so 5 runs before it starts being more expensive to save the slots, I think that’s reasonable. Heck, if it is even only $10, at 10 runs before it starts costing more, I’m still okay with that. I agree, it definitely shouldn’t be a $1 token. It probably shouldn’t even be a $5 token.

I think putting in the treasure box or as a treasure box exclusive defeats the purpose of the token. It would be better as a trade token sink and it doesn’t do that in the treasure box. The people most interested in an affordable way to try the higher level are the ones with the fewest treasure draws, so the ones least likely to see a token exclusive to the treasure box, especially one they might want multiples of. It needs to be either in packs (which seems unreasonable) or as a transmute (very reasonable). If the goal is just to create a slotless level up for BiS players, then sure, toss it in the treasure box and the players with all of the TEs will get a hoard of them and set the price, maybe low enough that BiS players justify owning a stack of 300 to last them a long while.

To the last bit, BiS players will have a skull and a rod for slotless +1 level . A bunch of other people will have a skull + kilt or boots for +1 level. They won’t need a potion.