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TOPIC: Putting a bug in ear for 2023 Bard/Paladin

Putting a bug in ear for 2023 Bard/Paladin 2 years 3 months ago #13

I really appreciate all of the information that has been provided! I have just kicked off my 3rd year playing TD so I'm learning and a lot of the history in token development I am not fully educated on (I do read the forums, I haven't read EVERYTHING 😅)

I will *try* to be a fly on the wall during token development this year, but I have never let my lack of knowledge stop me from putting my foot in my mouth before 😆

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Putting a bug in ear for 2023 Bard/Paladin 2 years 3 months ago #14

ElvisPrime wrote: I really appreciate all of the information that has been provided! I have just kicked off my 3rd year playing TD so I'm learning and a lot of the history in token development I am not fully educated on (I do read the forums, I haven't read EVERYTHING 😅)

I will *try* to be a fly on the wall during token development this year, but I have never let my lack of knowledge stop me from putting my foot in my mouth before 😆


Be a fly on the wall if you'd like,but a new perspective is often incredibly helpful.
First ever death in True Horde
"Well, with you guarding 2 players, that means you take 90. Are you dead?"
-Incognito

My token shop/trade thread: Wade's Wide World of Wonder 

My Current Paladin Build 

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Putting a bug in ear for 2023 Bard/Paladin 2 years 3 months ago #15

ElvisPrime wrote: It's not necessarily about what helps me the most or what helps the team the most. In multiple types of VTD combat over the past couple of years there have been times that Paladin is unable to guard because of the manner in which an attack is happening / type of enemy.

That invalidates the Amulet of Guarding which only offers that and nothing else. When I look at the other class-specific BiS neck slots - they typically offer multiple capabilities. So I would be fine with an Amulet of Guarding Relic or Legenday that offers additional grace and maybe additional LoH points or some other team boosting capability rather than boosting my own stats.

I'm not sure I've seen monster attacks that prevent Barbarian Rage, Cleric from using Divine Intervention or restoring a spell/power, Druid from using a spell while polymorphed, etc. But perhaps I have not paid enough attention to hear that (granted if we are bound, stunned or otherwise encumbered we can often lose the ability to use many abilities)

I also see the concern that because of the locked slot with class specific neck items, many neck items may not see the light of day again, i was only looking at the precedent for all other classes.

Based on what I'm hearing the best thing we can focus on here for Bard is Songbird and with Paladin it's an extra Guard (if the room/monster allows it) or charms. There does not seem to be community support for giving character specialized Relic or Legendaries for Bards and Paladins. If I want those, I should play the other classes 😉 I can accept that answer!


Sorry but it seems you are attempting to compare a UR (Amulet of Guarding) to a Relic or a Legendary. Sure the Amulet of Guarding can be bypassed but as others have pointed out it is not the class specific Relic/Legendary for the paladin. If you want to compare class specific relic and legendaries that is one thing. And something that has been done quiet a bit on the forums. To use Grace you must in fact have the either the relic or legendary class specific weapon. And I am not saying that at some point in the future there shouldn't be more class specific legendaries for ALL classes. Bard and paly can get neck at that time and the other classes can get one in a different slot. Currently all classes have 1 class specific relic/legendary each, most occupy the neck slot but not all do. (It could be argued that that Wizards have 2 since Drake's Staff can only be used by Wizards, but it was not considered a class specific relic/legendary in this regard).
You either discover a star or you don't. You arrogant punk.

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Putting a bug in ear for 2023 Bard/Paladin 2 years 3 months ago #16

Yep, I agree I was comparing the UR to the relics and legendaries and asking for a class specific Relic or legendary neck slot. That said, I failed to account for Avas and Widseth's filling that gap - in spite of the Staff of Focus. But Wizards seem to get a lot of love in token development as they are a whiny bunch

(I'm KIDDING all my Wizard friends!)

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Last edit: by ElvisPrime.

Putting a bug in ear for 2023 Bard/Paladin 2 years 3 months ago #17

ElvisPrime wrote: Yep, I agree I was comparing the UR to the relics and legendaries and asking for a class specific Relic or legendary neck slot. That said, I failed to account for Avas and Widseth's filling that gap - in spite of the Staff of Focus. But Wizards seem to get a lot of love in token development as they are a whiny bunch

(I'm KIDDING all my Wizard friends!)


THAT is hilarious!
First ever death in True Horde
"Well, with you guarding 2 players, that means you take 90. Are you dead?"
-Incognito

My token shop/trade thread: Wade's Wide World of Wonder 

My Current Paladin Build 

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Putting a bug in ear for 2023 Bard/Paladin 2 years 3 months ago #18

David Harris wrote: If Jeff decides to do another round of class specific relic/legendaries then everyone should get a 2nd one. Bard and Pally could get necks. Wizards could get spellbooks or something, others could get weapons or something cool in another slot. But my guess is Jeff will wait a while before introducing more class specifics at the top end.


I truly hope we never see single-class Relic/Legendaries again. Relics/Legendaries that are limited to say 3 classes might be interesting. But tying up the bulk of Relics/Legendaries into single-class items for 3 years is definitely a contributor to how we got to the "glut" of trade goods, that had an influence of increasing this year's recipes despite the fact that they are all things you might want 10 of in a party (thus causing an overshoot and sudden large increase in certain trade good costs).

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Putting a bug in ear for 2023 Bard/Paladin 2 years 3 months ago #19

Fiddy wrote:

David Harris wrote: If Jeff decides to do another round of class specific relic/legendaries then everyone should get a 2nd one. Bard and Pally could get necks. Wizards could get spellbooks or something, others could get weapons or something cool in another slot. But my guess is Jeff will wait a while before introducing more class specifics at the top end.


I truly hope we never see single-class Relic/Legendaries again. Relics/Legendaries that are limited to say 3 classes might be interesting. But tying up the bulk of Relics/Legendaries into single-class items for 3 years is definitely a contributor to how we got to the "glut" of trade goods, that had an influence of increasing this year's recipes despite the fact that they are all things you might want 10 of in a party (thus causing an overshoot and sudden large increase in certain trade good costs).


Hmmm I think VTD is a more of a contributor to the 'glut' of trade goods that the legendaries/relics. Looking at the lastest auctions. Steel and Hide are fletching all time highs and it is stuff for Rare and Uncommons that are lower than usually prices. Sure not everyone made them for classes they don't play, but I bet that is often the case with any legendary/relic. And there are people like you and me that make them for classes that we don't play. That said I do agree that I would prefer less specifc relic/legendaries just not for the exact reasons you have stated.
You either discover a star or you don't. You arrogant punk.

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Putting a bug in ear for 2023 Bard/Paladin 2 years 3 months ago #20

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

ElvisPrime wrote: I really appreciate all of the information that has been provided! I have just kicked off my 3rd year playing TD so I'm learning and a lot of the history in token development I am not fully educated on (I do read the forums, I haven't read EVERYTHING 😅)

I will *try* to be a fly on the wall during token development this year, but I have never let my lack of knowledge stop me from putting my foot in my mouth before 😆


Be a fly on the wall if you'd like,but a new perspective is often incredibly helpful.


Yes. More perspectives are better :)

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Putting a bug in ear for 2023 Bard/Paladin 2 years 3 months ago #21

jedibcg wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

David Harris wrote: If Jeff decides to do another round of class specific relic/legendaries then everyone should get a 2nd one. Bard and Pally could get necks. Wizards could get spellbooks or something, others could get weapons or something cool in another slot. But my guess is Jeff will wait a while before introducing more class specifics at the top end.


I truly hope we never see single-class Relic/Legendaries again. Relics/Legendaries that are limited to say 3 classes might be interesting. But tying up the bulk of Relics/Legendaries into single-class items for 3 years is definitely a contributor to how we got to the "glut" of trade goods, that had an influence of increasing this year's recipes despite the fact that they are all things you might want 10 of in a party (thus causing an overshoot and sudden large increase in certain trade good costs).


Hmmm I think VTD is a more of a contributor to the 'glut' of trade goods that the legendaries/relics. Looking at the lastest auctions. Steel and Hide are fletching all time highs and it is stuff for Rare and Uncommons that are lower than usually prices. Sure not everyone made them for classes they don't play, but I bet that is often the case with any legendary/relic. And there are people like you and me that make them for classes that we don't play. That said I do agree that I would prefer less specifc relic/legendaries just not for the exact reasons you have stated.


Just to provide a different perspective, I'd be fine with more legendaries being class-specific, or at least build-specific. Unless you're either making 8k orders every year, or playing a vast number of runs every year, or both, it's incredibly hard to craft even a single legendary and will most likely take several years of saving up tokens and GP.

I can use myself as an example here - I placed a 2k order for the last couple of years, played every single VTD (most often double-down runs with max treasure enhancers), and am only now approaching my first legendary by adding in a significant amount of tokens from previous years as GP and trade goods. The addition of two more legendaries this year which fit in pretty much every build makes me doubt that I'm ever going to own a surplus of trade goods - more likely I'll never own enough trade goods to craft even the current legendaries I might like to have.

With that in mind, I'd like to see less legendaries which are as non-specific as the ones we have this year - they will certainly reduce build diversity between classes, due to their power level and ability to fit into pretty much every build and class. I'd rather see either class-specific tokens or stings like Surtyr's Girdle or Aron's Robe and hopefully one day a choice of different legendary tokens in the same slots to give players some interesting choices when designing builds.
I play Rogue. Occasionally I even play Rogue well.

Current Rogue Build

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Putting a bug in ear for 2023 Bard/Paladin 2 years 3 months ago #22

Iross wrote:
Just to provide a different perspective, I'd be fine with more legendaries being class-specific, or at least build-specific. Unless you're either making 8k orders every year, or playing a vast number of runs every year, or both, it's incredibly hard to craft even a single legendary and will most likely take several years of saving up tokens and GP.

I can use myself as an example here - I placed a 2k order for the last couple of years, played every single VTD (most often double-down runs with max treasure enhancers), and am only now approaching my first legendary by adding in a significant amount of tokens from previous years as GP and trade goods. The addition of two more legendaries this year which fit in pretty much every build makes me doubt that I'm ever going to own a surplus of trade goods - more likely I'll never own enough trade goods to craft even the current legendaries I might like to have.

With that in mind, I'd like to see less legendaries which are as non-specific as the ones we have this year - they will certainly reduce build diversity between classes, due to their power level and ability to fit into pretty much every build and class. I'd rather see either class-specific tokens or stings like Surtyr's Girdle or Aron's Robe and hopefully one day a choice of different legendary tokens in the same slots to give players some interesting choices when designing builds.


Since you are getting close to making your first legendary are you going to make 1 that can only be used by 1 class or one that can be used by multiple classes? Not saying there is a right answer to this. I do however have a follow up if it one be a class specific. If you cannot play the class which your only legendary is for how are you going to feel about that?

I do agree that eventually I want to see more options for legendaries that give people different options.
You either discover a star or you don't. You arrogant punk.

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Putting a bug in ear for 2023 Bard/Paladin 2 years 3 months ago #23

ElvisPrime wrote: Yep, I agree I was comparing the UR to the relics and legendaries and asking for a class specific Relic or legendary neck slot. That said, I failed to account for Avas and Widseth's filling that gap - in spite of the Staff of Focus. But Wizards seem to get a lot of love in token development as they are a whiny bunch

(I'm KIDDING all my Wizard friends!)


Now that's good! (and I do play wizard a good amount)

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Putting a bug in ear for 2023 Bard/Paladin 2 years 3 months ago #24

Iross wrote: it's incredibly hard to craft even a single legendary and will most likely take several years of saving up tokens and GP.


That is a feature, not a bug.

Put differently, when Legendaries first came out, Jeff said he expected players to take years to make them, spending time collecting the needed trade goods and other ingredients.

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